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Post by Saint on May 23, 2014 20:14:12 GMT
I was given the impression that more activities/events were now taking place in the club bar as it's being fairly well advertised.
Maybe that impression is slightly off the mark.
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Post by citycentresaint on May 23, 2014 20:58:57 GMT
We need to generate cash from off field activities.
Not really viable whilst we are at CP.
If we ever want to achieve league status, we have to leave CP.
COYS
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Post by EFMTFTV on May 23, 2014 23:24:42 GMT
St Albans City will never be a league club I can see us being conference again, maybe even staying there for a couple of seasons but league no
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Post by bob666 on May 24, 2014 0:15:14 GMT
What is being said about CP is no doubt true but the flip side surely is that St Albans effectively get to use CP for a token rent- that it generates relatively few costs? The construction of new ground with a heavy emphasis on non matchday commercial activities is a double edged sword. In a sense the FC's viability becomes linked to the success of a broader business operation- it can work but it can fail. Also the ready availability of a low cost ground has, I think, played a key role in sustaining the club through crisis. I also accept that given St Albans FC is a privately owned (legally at least) for profit firm renting the ground from a charity for a peppercorn rent that there has to be a limit to the development of commercial operations on the CP site but I just wish the trust would apply this limit flexibly.
I don't image many will agree on this point but I also argue that given its central location the large majority of St Albans residents live within 2 miles of CP and can thus (assuming they not disabled or elderly) walk to CP in a reasonable time. Could you not therefore argue that if St Albans is a bit more expensive than other clubs with more modern less central grounds that this is compensated for by the savings that home fans receive through lack of transport costs relating to the location? For me at least football for £14 at CP would effectively be quite a bit cheaper than £12 on a greenfield site (which I would oppose anyway as I think the erosion of greenbelt is threatening St Albans' identity as a distinct entity).
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nat038
Saints Trialist
Posts: 42
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Post by nat038 on May 24, 2014 10:15:18 GMT
What is being said about CP is no doubt true but the flip side surely is that St Albans effectively get to use CP for a token rent- that it generates relatively few costs? The construction of new ground with a heavy emphasis on non matchday commercial activities is a double edged sword. In a sense the FC's viability becomes linked to the success of a broader business operation- it can work but it can fail. Also the ready availability of a low cost ground has, I think, played a key role in sustaining the club through crisis. I also accept that given St Albans FC is a privately owned (legally at least) for profit firm renting the ground from a charity for a peppercorn rent that there has to be a limit to the development of commercial operations on the CP site but I just wish the trust would apply this limit flexibly. I don't image many will agree on this point but I also argue that given its central location the large majority of St Albans residents live within 2 miles of CP and can thus (assuming they not disabled or elderly) walk to CP in a reasonable time. Could you not therefore argue that if St Albans is a bit more expensive than other clubs with more modern less central grounds that this is compensated for by the savings that home fans receive through lack of transport costs relating to the location? For me at least football for £14 at CP would effectively be quite a bit cheaper than £12 on a greenfield site (which I would oppose anyway as I think the erosion of greenbelt is threatening St Albans' identity as a distinct entity). A top post, totally agree.
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Post by Boomer on May 25, 2014 20:12:48 GMT
I agree entirely. Unfortunately the cost of running a football clubs doesn't increase on a par with inflation so it would be no surprise if players were asking for increased money to sign. We want a squad good enough to perform well next season at the higher level so it does seem unwise to expect that costs stay the same. However, to back up davymac's point by taking the 626 that Boomer notes was the average crowd for the final 11 games, adding £1 to the cost of admission will obviously bring in an additional £626 per game from that average. Alternatively, another 52 fans @ £12 would bring in £624 and gives the potential for more from the Saints Bar/golden goal/raffle/programmes/etc. We've got a good number of fans coming to games at the moment so it seems to me to be a more sensible option to increase the money they spend as part of the Clarence Park Experience (TM) than charge them more for getting into the ground in the first place and potentially reduce the average. I didn't bat an eye when admission went up to £12, I simply bought fewer golden goal and raffle tickets and occasionally forewent a programme. My match-day expenditure stayed the same and therefore the money the club made from me stayed the same. Paradoxically, had the admission stayed the same but something else had been made more attractive for me to buy I would have spent more money per game. We are strange creatures when it comes to spending our disposable income: the cost of football is fairly inelastic but the sense of injustice felt by football fans at being taken advantage of is very keen. I hope Tom Norman is thinking imaginatively about how to raise revenue this coming season. As many have said already, increasing the cost of admission is not the way to go about it. What a great post. Absolutely. I have to agree with pirate - right on the money (okay, excuse the pun!) Alf and the best post on this thread by a considerable distance. Adam Smith once wrote a few words on the subject called The Law of Supply and Demand and I would urge whoever it is that is making the decision on season ticket/admission prices for next season takes just a little time to read it. Adam may have been many things but he was certainly no fool. I fear the Club's commercial activities have been worse than poor for many seasons. I really do wish Tom Norman all the very best in trying to turn it around and I am sure he will make every effort to generate sufficient revenue streams to cover the shortfalls elsewhere (i.e. gate receipts etc.). I'm not sure what restrictions are placed on our licence from the Council but, for instance, the Saints Bar only seems to be open on match days/nights. Surely this could be hired out in the daytime and on nights, when not required by the Club. Another small thing is the Snowball, which could have the potential to bring in a lot of money. From what I can see, the take up on the Snowball has dropped some 22% since its introduction and that is worrying. If it involves a lot of work to regenerate it, why not try and get someone in on commission to try and promote and sell it around the town and surrounding areas. The more the prize money, the easier it would be to gain members. These are only a couple of things but from little acorns etc................ One final thing, when talking about season tickets/admission and any calculations. We need to remember that any ticket prices/increases etc will always include a 16.66% contribution to the Vatman! Some of us tend to forget that. COYS No images allowed -http://i44.tinypic.com/34o7ceq.jpg
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Post by minty on May 25, 2014 21:14:48 GMT
I think that if the club wanted the Saints Bar hired out more often they would need to improve the access for people who aren't able to walk up the stairs unaided. Also the lighting around the back of the stand isn't too great either. It would also be a more attractive venue to hire if something was done about the toilets. They've been in an appalling state for years!
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Post by EFMTFTV on May 26, 2014 11:20:58 GMT
The snowball has turned into a farce ever since they stopped doing the draw live on the pitch, doing it in private and just reading it out isn't how it should be done and is also against their own rules I remember reading about the old days where the clubs lottery could bring in a decent amount when, I think it was Bill Nic, would go door to door all round St Albans, it's a shame things like the National Lottery offer such good prizes that our own snowball can be devalued
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Post by citycentresaint on May 26, 2014 12:20:40 GMT
St Albans City will never be a league club I can see us being conference again, maybe even staying there for a couple of seasons but league no Why will we never be a league side. I know long way off, but if Stevenage can do it, why can't we. Population in St Albans is growing every year. The North West has too many clubs with populations shrinking. Hope in 15 years we could be an established league outfit.
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Post by westwalessaint on May 26, 2014 12:54:33 GMT
St Albans City will never be a league club I can see us being conference again, maybe even staying there for a couple of seasons but league no Why will we never be a league side. I know long way off, but if Stevenage can do it, why can't we. Population in St Albans is growing every year. The North West has too many clubs with populations shrinking. Hope in 15 years we could be an established league outfit. Possibly - but never whilst at Clarence Park.
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Post by Canary Saint on May 26, 2014 13:23:12 GMT
St Albans City will never be a league club I can see us being conference again, maybe even staying there for a couple of seasons but league no Why will we never be a league side. I know long way off, but if Stevenage can do it, why can't we. Population in St Albans is growing every year. The North West has too many clubs with populations shrinking. Hope in 15 years we could be an established league outfit. Why can Stevenage do it? * Somebody willing to put large amounts of money into the club. * A supportive council. * A profit making clubhouse. * No league teams nearby (though Spurs and Arsenal still have strong support in the town) * No local issues to overcome ( e.g. ground siting and use) * I expect there are many other reasons that don't come to me off the top of my head. Despite all the above there is only one relegation and one promotion separating City from playing them in the near future. Make what you will of that
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Post by citycentresaint on May 26, 2014 14:28:57 GMT
The council is the biggest issue we have.
They are totally useless and are only interested in trying to line their own pockets.
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Post by bob666 on May 26, 2014 21:38:06 GMT
The issue of the proximity of league teams would I feel make any move to out of town stadium a very risky one. St Albans population is increasing but at the same time is (I cannot prove this with solid empirical evidence) becoming more fluid. On the basis of personal experience, not systematic study I admit, I believe that in addition to overseas immigrates you are getting professional couples moving here from London to take advantage of relatively cheaper property while at the same time native St Albans residents who cannot afford move out to cheaper towns. While these new residents are potential supporters its unrealistic to expect them, initially at least, to feel a strong bond with the club. If the club play at CP convenience may led to them giving us a try - walk down to the ground. If they have to drive/ bus out of the city to watch the club why not just go to Watford instead and watch a much better standard of football or hop on a train into London.
Also a distinct sense of place does not entirely depend on the physical organization of place. So the erosion of greenbelt, of which a new ground may be part, will not axiomatically led to a loss of distinct civic identity but I do feel that it will weaken it. This may be petty but I noticed that lot of people from St Albans describe themselves as from London on social networks (this really irritates me). The erosion of physical separation will further weaken the sense of St Albans as part of London and make it less likely that people will favor watching St Albans over other bigger clubs- because of a attachment to St Albans as a distinct social space
On admission prices: In truth no one on this forum or in the club itself know the price at which global revenue (drink, admission. golden goal et al ) will be maximized. So in this insistence the most relevant economists may (a odd thing for a man on the left like myself to say) be the Austrians (market as a discovery mechanism) not the classical school. My hunch is that provided Grey et al can be given a budget to construct a side who can win the majority of our home games and finish mid table the club could charge £14 without significantly effecting attendances (and thus other revenue streams). I could be completely wrong. I also assume we pay 20% VAT on admissions but we obviously pay duty on beer sales etc.
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Post by EFMTFTV on May 27, 2014 8:28:42 GMT
Get ready for the admission prices bombshell folks It's imminent and people aren't going to like it
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Post by Boomer on May 27, 2014 8:59:37 GMT
Get ready for the admission prices bombshell folks It's imminent and people aren't going to like it So how come you know so much, then?
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Post by cheshuntsaint on May 27, 2014 10:00:03 GMT
Get ready for the admission prices bombshell folks It's imminent and people aren't going to like it So how come you know so much, then? Because he's the top boy
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Post by notsorecentconvert on May 27, 2014 10:59:48 GMT
Instead of considering any increases, St Albans should take a leaf out of Wealdstone's book. They offer reduced entry (£5) to season ticket holders from any Premier League or Football League club.
If we were to do that, we might get some of those St Albans/Harpenden-based Spurs, Arsenal, Chelsea, West Ham, Watford, Luton, QPR fans to come along.
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Post by EFMTFTV on May 27, 2014 11:17:18 GMT
Get ready for the admission prices bombshell folks It's imminent and people aren't going to like it So how come you know so much, then? Friends In high places ?
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Post by EFMTFTV on May 27, 2014 11:18:10 GMT
Instead of considering any increases, St Albans should take a leaf out of Wealdstone's book. They offer reduced entry (£5) to season ticket holders from any Premier League or Football League club. If we were to do that, we might get some of those St Albans/Harpenden-based Spurs, Arsenal, Chelsea, West Ham, Watford, Luton, QPR fans to come along. We have done that on occasions
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Post by notsorecentconvert on May 27, 2014 12:04:54 GMT
Did it work EFMTFTV? As they haven't continue with it, I assume not. Ah well.
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Post by davymac55 on May 27, 2014 12:41:52 GMT
So its official. £15 Unbelievable
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Post by davymac55 on May 27, 2014 12:46:50 GMT
And about 240 to 250 for a season ticket. This should pull the crowds in.
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Post by minty on May 27, 2014 12:48:32 GMT
Expect boycotts and abuse from visiting fans!! I guess the players better do the business on the pitch otherwise there will be a decrease in our home support if £15 hasn't put off the punters already.
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Post by notsorecentconvert on May 27, 2014 13:01:25 GMT
A stunner, as a fan of a nearby League club who was attracted to Clarence Park last season and became a regular after Christmas, I can say that £15 will put me off attending as often. Had it remained at £12 (or even increased to £13) I could see myself spending more Saturdays and midweek evenings at Clarence Park than at my league club but I'm afraid £15 will deter me.
It's not the money, it's the value. This is an increase of 25%. The club can't put the prices up by a quarter, even in a relatively affluent city, and not experience a serious cooling of interest.
Looking at the typical attendances on the official site for the last spells in Conference South the crowds weren't that big anyway - 500 or 600 looked like a decent gate, with the odd one in the 700-800 range but several in the 300-400 range too.
If the team does well, the crowds may hold up reasonably well in the short-term, but if they are mid-table or lower this could turn out to be a pretty disastrous decision.
Also, and less easy to quantify, is the effect this has on fans and their matchday experience. Clarence Park is a happy place when the team is playing well and winning but some fans can turn on the team a bit if things are not going well.
It strikes me the club, and the team, need the fans on side and a 25% price hike is a brilliant way of making people feel mildly resentful before they've even set foot in the ground.
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Post by Saint on May 27, 2014 13:23:34 GMT
What a shockingly poor decision.
I'm far too annoyed to say anything further.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2014 13:28:30 GMT
I think your chairman has explained the price rise rationale well (although in pointing out the convenience of paying for your season ticket by credit card and splitting the payments he's maybe overlooking the fact that you'll get charged interest). ultimately, as pointed out elsewhere by users of this forum, opportunities for non match day revenue are limited, which is a shame really as the location of Clarence Park would make it a convenient and no doubt popular venue if it was capable of hosting functions or had a bar that attracted drinkers all week. But I digress... it's claimed there's a considerable increase to your Playing Budget for next season, I guess only time will tell if the standard of players you attract and subsequent results are worth the 25% rise. If you're on great form then I'm sure you won't hear too much moaning about entrance fee's.
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Post by Saint on May 27, 2014 13:39:11 GMT
Significant increase in playing budget? Are we going to try and get promotion straight out of this division?
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Post by ex-saintswebbo on May 27, 2014 13:42:25 GMT
I think your chairman has explained the price rise rationale well (although in pointing out the convenience of paying for your season ticket by credit card and splitting the payments he's maybe overlooking the fact that you'll get charged interest). ultimately, as pointed out elsewhere by users of this forum, opportunities for non match day revenue are limited, which is a shame really as the location of Clarence Park would make it a convenient and no doubt popular venue if it was capable of hosting functions or had a bar that attracted drinkers all week. But I digress... it's claimed there's a considerable increase to your Playing Budget for next season, I guess only time will tell if the standard of players you attract and subsequent results are worth the 25% rise. If you're on great form then I'm sure you won't hear too much moaning about entrance fee's. Yes Marc, you are correct - I think the explanation was spot on.. I for one am disapointed by the hike but the fact is that the fans have to understand that SACFC is not financially stable. I heard that the income from the Hemel club house is around £200k per year. The clubhouse at Clarence Park makes around £10k per year. That's just for starters....
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Post by ex-saintswebbo on May 27, 2014 13:44:25 GMT
Significant increase in playing budget? Are we going to try and get promotion straight out of this division? Catch 22 again. If you want to force the hand of the council you need to be climbing the leagues.. to climb the leagues needs better players... better players are on better money...
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Post by Saint on May 27, 2014 13:48:54 GMT
Significant increase in playing budget? Are we going to try and get promotion straight out of this division? Catch 22 again. If you want to force the hand of the council you need to be climbing the leagues.. to climb the leagues needs better players... better players are on better money... I did think this. If we really want to try and achieve support for a stadium, then we really need to be pushing on further. Whether this is the way to do it, remains to be seen.
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