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Post by Boomer on May 27, 2014 14:07:07 GMT
I think your chairman has explained the price rise rationale well (although in pointing out the convenience of paying for your season ticket by credit card and splitting the payments he's maybe overlooking the fact that you'll get charged interest). ultimately, as pointed out elsewhere by users of this forum, opportunities for non match day revenue are limited, which is a shame really as the location of Clarence Park would make it a convenient and no doubt popular venue if it was capable of hosting functions or had a bar that attracted drinkers all week. But I digress... it's claimed there's a considerable increase to your Playing Budget for next season, I guess only time will tell if the standard of players you attract and subsequent results are worth the 25% rise. If you're on great form then I'm sure you won't hear too much moaning about entrance fee's. Hi Marc, I am not defending this shenanigans in any way but I'm not sure quite what you are saying about the charging interest thing on the credit card. Surely if you settle the card in full on a monthly basis, it isn't applicable.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2014 14:30:27 GMT
I think your chairman has explained the price rise rationale well (although in pointing out the convenience of paying for your season ticket by credit card and splitting the payments he's maybe overlooking the fact that you'll get charged interest). ultimately, as pointed out elsewhere by users of this forum, opportunities for non match day revenue are limited, which is a shame really as the location of Clarence Park would make it a convenient and no doubt popular venue if it was capable of hosting functions or had a bar that attracted drinkers all week. But I digress... it's claimed there's a considerable increase to your Playing Budget for next season, I guess only time will tell if the standard of players you attract and subsequent results are worth the 25% rise. If you're on great form then I'm sure you won't hear too much moaning about entrance fee's. Hi Marc, I am not defending this shenanigans in any way but I'm not sure quite what you are saying about the charging interest thing on the credit card. Surely if you settle the card in full on a monthly basis, it isn't applicable. you're quite right that IF you settle the card in full then you won't incur interest. however, your chairman suggested that you could spread the cost by credit card... which means you'd be charged interest.
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ebsacfc
Saints Reserve Team Player
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Post by ebsacfc on May 27, 2014 14:57:50 GMT
15 quid is far to much for this level of football. Even more so when you take into account the piss poor facilities we have to endure. No cover at either end of the ground, a souless clubhouse, terrible catering facilities and abysmal toilet facilities. Any idea if there are any plans to even slightly improve this area of our club??
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Post by Boomer on May 27, 2014 15:21:43 GMT
So where are the early bird prices on the 2014/15 season tickets and when is this Club going to get into 21st century on concession prices? Most clubs in non league treat a concession as 60 and over, meanwhile we are still languishing in the Dark Ages at 65 and over. It is wrong. Here is a comparison with last season - Season Tickets2013/14 (23 league games) Adult £245 = £10.65 per game Conc £138 = £6.00 per game Junior £50 = £2.17 per game Snowball Discount £10 2013/14 Early Bird (23 league games) Adult £220 = £9.57 per game Conc £125 = £5.43 per game Junior £45 = £1.96 per game Snowball Discount £10 2014/15 (21 league games) Adult £252 = £12.00 per game Conc £168 = £8.00 per game Junior £50 = £2.38 per game Snowball Discount £10 Therefore the following %age price increases per game are as follows - 2014/15 against 2013/14 Adult 12.68% Conc 33.33% Junior 9.68%2014/15 Snowball Member against 2013/14 Snowball Member Adult 12.72% Conc 35.00% Junior 9.20%2014/15 against 2013/14 Early Bird Adult 25.54% Conc 47.33% Junior 21.43%2014/15 Snowball Member against 2013/14 Early Bird Snowball Member Adult 26.17% Conc 50.40% Junior 25.00%The concessions seem to be getting a hammering all round but 50.40%? Now that is a serious p..s take. Still, nice work if you can get it. Matchday Admission2013/14 Adult £12.00 per game Conc £8.00 per game Junior £3.00 per game Family £18.00 per game 2014/15 Adult £15.00 per game Conc £10.00 per game Junior £3.00 per game Family £25.00 per game Therefore the following %age price increases per are as follows - 2014/15 against 2013/14 Adult 25.00% Conc 25.00% Junior 0.00% Family 38.89%A 38.89% increase on the Family Matchday Admission. Now that is what I call an real incentive to encourage entertainment for the family on a Saturday afternoon. All comments welcome please.
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Post by yellowarmy on May 27, 2014 15:28:48 GMT
Now the season tickets etc have been sorted , hopefully we will hear shortly about the Pre Season friendlies that have been lined up..
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2014 15:28:57 GMT
is there no chance that your club is just testing the water, gauging the fans reaction? if there is enough of an adverse reaction would the price be changed back before the season starts?
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Post by Boomer on May 27, 2014 15:36:30 GMT
Hi Marc, I am not defending this shenanigans in any way but I'm not sure quite what you are saying about the charging interest thing on the credit card. Surely if you settle the card in full on a monthly basis, it isn't applicable. you're quite right that IF you settle the card in full then you won't incur interest. however, your chairman suggested that you could spread the cost by credit card... which means you'd be charged interest. You're right, marc, it does mention something about spreading the payments, which I didn't spot earlier but it is worded in a very woolly way. Perhaps they are suggesting that supporters can pay a monthly direct debit over a certain period, I'm sure I don't know. What I do know is that it that the exact payment options need to be made a lot clearer.
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Post by bob666 on May 27, 2014 16:01:34 GMT
I don't like the way the owners almost suggest in the statement that we should be grateful to them. Maybe we should but its not for them to say. Also there must be certain benefits to owning the club in terms of PR and potential commercial opporunities (building housing etc) associated with building a new ground
I also agree with recent convert. I know it is not this simple (given differences in capacity to generate commercial income) but for me if we going to be the most expensive in the division we need to be challenging for promotion (among the best in the division). This decision creates a legitimate expectations among supporters and I only hope the management are given the playing budget to meet these expectations. I think squad needs massive changes to seriously challenge for back to back promotions if I don't see these I will not be buying a season ticket. For me its not about affordability but a sense of value- no one like to feel like their being ripped off and unless we are at least challenging for the playoffs I find something else to do on Saturday afternoons.
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Post by saintaclaus on May 27, 2014 16:18:13 GMT
Unbelievable price rise!!!
Isn't that a 50% increase since the beginning of last season or certainly mid 2012/13?
There are some (admittedly northern based) league 2 and one league one side who don't charge that!! A quick look round the leagues and Rochdale of League One charge £13. My kids are 16 this season and as they now cannot leave education til they are 18 do not have jobs so £10 is a p take - that means me and two sons will pay £35 plus food programme etc - easily a £50 outlay!! I am afraid you will not see at least 3 of us next season - and we attended 18 home (and 10 away) games last season so thats a loss of almost £1000. We have attended about 75% of all games over the past 3 years as well. I was aiming to get a few mates together and sponsor a game this season - now ill bin that too - oh and btw I CAN afford the increase but there's a limit - a truly bad decision whatever the reasons
a saint fan from a distance
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Post by EFMTFTV on May 27, 2014 16:24:19 GMT
You make a good point, I should imagine most people CAN afford the rise but it's the principal - 50% increase in 18 months is a joke If your local pub put up prices by that amount you wouldn't go as often, if the buses, trains, taxies did that they'd be uproar Even houses haven't gone up that much
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Post by jimicus on May 27, 2014 16:45:54 GMT
Me, my wife and our two kids have been coming when we could afford it. We all saw the great play off victory! But increasing the family ticket from £18 to £25 will mean coming less often. Money only stretches so far!
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knockers
Saints Reserve Team Player
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Post by knockers on May 27, 2014 16:46:12 GMT
Think £15 is too much an increase, fans would accept probably extra pound for rise in leagues, after building increase in attendances would be shame to knock them back down with this, chairman and board re-consider please. COYS
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Post by notsorecentconvert on May 27, 2014 17:18:43 GMT
Having read the club statement I think there are further questions to ask.
I don't think it's particularly acceptable to be so opaque when explaining the reasons for increasing the prices. To make bold statements such as "John McGowan and Lawrence Levy, who have put undreamed of amounts of money into the club..." and "we can tell you that we have agreed a considerable increase to the playing budget for next season..." needs greater explanation.
Perhaps others are better informed than I but does the club, or the company that owns it, publish any kind of financial report each year? Do we have any idea of the running costs and income?
Owning and running a football club can seem a thankless task but bandying about statements like this does not actually justify the increases. Give us some figures. The playing budget is going up from what to what? Mr McGowan and Mr Levy have put in what? Otherwise, this is just hot air.
Also, the playing budget is the "primary reason" for the increase. That's great, but what are the other reasons? With difficult decisions comes an even more difficult responsibility. Openness and transparency. When making potentially awkward decisions, any business needs to take its most important customers with them, not risk alienating them.
If it's hard to raise revenue then it's time to get their thinking caps on to come up with some creative ways to raise finance. That means going out and actively looking for additional investment or sponsorship from large, medium-sized and small companies. It means increasing fund-raising activity at grassroots level by getting the fans on side.
I couple of weeks ago I enquired about sponsoring a player's kit next season, asking what one gets in return. (Other clubs hold a sponsors' dinner at the end of the season and give a shirt signed by that player in exchange for full kit sponsorship, for example). I haven't even had a reply.
(Sorry for going on.)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2014 17:30:53 GMT
I am very disappointed by this decision. I bought into the 'Support Your Local Team' , 'Your City,Your Club' concepts of last season, but all the goodwill generated has been crushed at a single stroke. I cannot believe the club will generate more income from a £15 entrance fee, with an obvious (to me at least ) reduced attendance, than they would for a £12/£13 entrance fee. Not withstanding the reduced revenues from Programme Sales,Golden Goal, Raffle and bar takings. When a retail business hikes up one of it's core products by twenty-five percent it does a lot of soul searching and invests in a lot of Market research about what effect this would have on it's overall business,and how will it's customers react. Obviously the club can't afford to employ a company of Market Researchers but it must have done some projections on entrance fee/attendance and the knock on effect on peripherals . Hopefully at the next fans forum Mr Levy will bring along his projections .
Would MrMcGowan. charge £4.50 for a pint of beer in his pubs when his nearest competitor was charging £3 ?
Finally, in my opinion this is not just about another three quid, it is about loss of faith.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2014 17:42:03 GMT
recentconvert - At a Fans Forum, Lawrence Levy told us that the first season that he and John McGowan were running the club the losses were £125k, the second season they were £100k. Last season would have been their third at the helm,and presumably the losses would have been lower given the cup prize money.
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Post by Saint on May 27, 2014 17:45:13 GMT
Having read the club statement I think there are further questions to ask. I don't think it's particularly acceptable to be so opaque when explaining the reasons for increasing the prices. To make bold statements such as "John McGowan and Lawrence Levy, who have put undreamed of amounts of money into the club..." and "we can tell you that we have agreed a considerable increase to the playing budget for next season..." needs greater explanation. Perhaps others are better informed than I but does the club, or the company that owns it, publish any kind of financial report each year? Do we have any idea of the running costs and income? Owning and running a football club can seem a thankless task but bandying about statements like this does not actually justify the increases. Give us some figures. The playing budget is going up from what to what? Mr McGowan and Mr Levy have put in what? Otherwise, this is just hot air. Also, the playing budget is the "primary reason" for the increase. That's great, but what are the other reasons? With difficult decisions comes an even more difficult responsibility. Openness and transparency. When making potentially awkward decisions, any business needs to take its most important customers with them, not risk alienating them. If it's hard to raise revenue then it's time to get their thinking caps on to come up with some creative ways to raise finance. That means going out and actively looking for additional investment or sponsorship from large, medium-sized and small companies. It means increasing fund-raising activity at grassroots level by getting the fans on side. I couple of weeks ago I enquired about sponsoring a player's kit next season, asking what one gets in return. (Other clubs hold a sponsors' dinner at the end of the season and give a shirt signed by that player in exchange for full kit sponsorship, for example). I haven't even had a reply. (Sorry for going on.) On your point about the kit sponsorship Recentconvert, it would probably be worth contacting Tom Norman via this email address if you want to speak to him about it still, I'm sure he will give you a very speedy response. The email is: tom.norman@sacfc.co.uk
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2014 18:07:14 GMT
In my opinion the team showed that they were capable of consolidating in the Conference South next year (assuming they stick together). What is our aim? I would've thought we consolidate first season, and have a big push the season after. If we were operating at a loss as detailed in the statement, but the team is capable of staying in the Conference South as it is, why are we considerably increasing the budget? Don't get me wrong, I want us to increase the budget, get top quality players in and get back to the Conference National. But not for £15 a game.
Very disappointed, basically.
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Post by notsorecentconvert on May 27, 2014 18:07:49 GMT
Thanks Lonecrank. Interesting info. Any idea what the club's company name is? Is it St Albans City Football and Athletic Club Limited?
And thanks Saint, I'll double check where I sent my initial mail and follow up again.
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Post by Hatboy on May 27, 2014 18:14:11 GMT
Shot themselves in the foot
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Post by notsorecentconvert on May 27, 2014 18:52:55 GMT
Just a thought but can the Supporters' Trust make any representation to the board? Did the Trust have any prior knowledge of the price rises? Were they consulted and did they offer an opinion? Is anyone from the Trust on this forum?
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Post by Canary Saint on May 27, 2014 19:20:02 GMT
"John McGowan and Lawrence Levy, who have put undreamed of amounts of money into the Club over the last three years"
Well bully for them. Nobody made them do it, so they must have their reasons. I wonder what those could be? (though I think I might have a good idea). I somehow doubt it's to save the fans having to suffer the humiliation of dropping down the leagues.
:-(
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Post by ex-saintswebbo on May 27, 2014 19:25:27 GMT
Unbelievable price rise!!! Isn't that a 50% increase since the beginning of last season or certainly mid 2012/13? There are some (admittedly northern based) league 2 and one league one side who don't charge that!! A quick look round the leagues and Rochdale of League One charge £13. My kids are 16 this season and as they now cannot leave education til they are 18 do not have jobs so £10 is a p take - that means me and two sons will pay £35 plus food programme etc - easily a £50 outlay!! I am afraid you will not see at least 3 of us next season - and we attended 18 home (and 10 away) games last season so thats a loss of almost £1000. We have attended about 75% of all games over the past 3 years as well. I was aiming to get a few mates together and sponsor a game this season - now ill bin that too - oh and btw I CAN afford the increase but there's a limit - a truly bad decision whatever the reasons a saint fan from a distance I think if you look at the prices 16 to 21 year-olds get in for £5 each (not £10) with a free Young Adults Membership Card.
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Post by EFMTFTV on May 27, 2014 19:26:54 GMT
I'm led to believe the trust voted in the mid season hike, would be nice to see if they had any say in this
This club will never be sustainable where we are because of the lack of money making opportunities outside matchday, it's away had a 'money man'
So you either cut your cloth accordingly and have one of the lowest budgets in the league and finish wherever or someone puts the money in
If we finish 4th from bottom the floater won't come only the hardcore, if we charge £15 it'll be the same
But the floaters are the people we need to keep here and we need to make that attractive and people DO spend money in the ground, it just doesn't add up vs the matchday revenue lost in the ground
Our crowds were up last season but a majority of it was down to freebies so how many 'full price' adults actually come in the gate? My guess 2/300 that's only £600/900 extra every 2 weeks, not exactly a huge budget rise there
This is a 50% rise in 18 months, I can afford it but I could afford a pint in a bar if it was £6 but you wouldn't find me drinking there
And let's not forget that whereas the owners are putting money in we know that if the new stadium becomes reality they will do well out of it, you can guarentee who'll be supplying the bar, you need to speculate to accumulate and they should do this by continuing the good work they've done by getting people in plus a decent budget
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Post by ex-saintswebbo on May 27, 2014 19:31:39 GMT
Dover Athletic charged £15 last season btw.
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Post by Boomer on May 27, 2014 19:49:11 GMT
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Post by westwalessaint on May 27, 2014 19:57:28 GMT
This is a large price rise and a huge gamble. I've supported Saints for over 5 decades but sadly I've seen this all before - as many others have. My guess that it costs more than £1 million to run the club each season. It costs nearly £30K to run a village team where I live!! The money has to come from somewhere. There has got to be progress on a new ground soon or we will just be yoyo'ing the leagues.
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Post by Boomer on May 27, 2014 20:08:57 GMT
And while we are talking about Dover, they (along nearly every other club) also do a good Early Bird scheme for Season Tickets purchased prior to 30 June 2014. We have operated something similar for several seasons and it now appears to have stopped. This is looking a lot like all take and no give.
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Post by saintaclaus on May 27, 2014 20:11:32 GMT
Apologies didn't realise about the 16-21 year old membership card reducing price to a £5
Thinking about the £15 - I'll go but not buy a programme, raffle tickets or golden goal which I normally spend about a £5 on - so overall I'm £2 better off but the club is worse off - ill just forgo the chance to win the packet of biscuits and the excitement of seeing if we can' wait til either the 75th or 83rd minute to start scoring !!!
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oldgeezer
Saints Youth Team Player
Posts: 248
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Post by oldgeezer on May 27, 2014 20:21:02 GMT
Sad. It will be interesting to see how many fans are prepared to pay these amounts.
Average number of fans last season was 515 @ £12 (I know not all paid that) £6180 per match With 100 less fans (I guess) 415 @ £15 is £6225
The club will make an extra £45 per match with 100 fewer fans.......?
That doesn't make sense to me.
Just have to wait and see if 100 (or more) have been driven away.
Personally I'm undecided - but I've been going for so many years, through good and bad, I'll probably carry on. (unless I find something I'd rather do on a Saturday afternoon - Hemel is just down the road...)
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Post by Saint on May 27, 2014 21:21:06 GMT
A Wealdstone fan posted this on the Conference South Forum:
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