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Post by cheshuntsaint on Dec 4, 2014 8:57:06 GMT
I can't say that I know Ben Martin well,but I have sat next to him on several occasions in the bar after matches,and each time he has been polite,well mannered and respectful and never in any way 'arrogant' . I think it would be safe to say that Ben Martin is very well liked as a person by virtually all our regular travelling away fans,and all of us who gather in the bar after matches. It seems very short sighted to be drawing conclusions about someone's character by reading a 'twitter spat' . I agree with all of that, lonecrank. I have known Ben for probably something like 10 years and he is a top bloke, who will always make time to talk to you, whether it be on an away coach or after one of our games. A nicer guy you couldn't wish to meet and arrogant he most definitely is not. Yes, he probably should not have got sucked into a spat with the person but I do have some sympathy. Personal abuse against a player is bang out of order, whether it be on a social network site or a forum and a genuine supporter of SACFC he is not or he would not be making such utterances. He maybe a sound guy in the bar - but to get into a dispute criticising the fans who travelled on a bitterly cold Tuesday evening to witness that performance is a disgrace.
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Post by PaperSaint on Dec 4, 2014 9:25:14 GMT
Reading through it all - and some of it is very much heat of the moment stuff - he appears to me to be more questioning comments that our support was louder than Wealdstone's whilst at the same time he admits it was a poor performance (as well as having to take direct criticism). For me, some of the things said by all parties would have been better left unsaid (but that's always easy to say afterwards), but Ben Martin showed that he has pride in himself, is passionate about his team and his dedication to the club whilst also accepting that everyone is entitled to their opinion (ie his comment: "I don't perceive those as my enemies. I think a good debate is needed every now and then")
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Post by cheshuntsaint on Dec 4, 2014 9:32:42 GMT
Reading through it all - and some of it is very much heat of the moment stuff - he appears to me to be more questioning comments that our support was louder than Wealdstone's whilst at the same time he admits it was a poor performance (as well as having to take direct criticism). For me, some of the things said by all parties would have been better left unsaid (but that's always easy to say afterwards), but Ben Martin showed that he has pride in himself, is passionate about his team and his dedication to the club whilst also accepting that everyone is entitled to their opinion (ie his comment: "I don't perceive those as my enemies. I think a good debate is needed every now and then") "I don't perceive those as my enemies. I think a good debate is needed every now and then" - This comment? So he's criticised the fans - yet he's coming out with credit? Unbelievable.
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Post by PaperSaint on Dec 4, 2014 9:42:33 GMT
Just trying to put it all into perspective. Do I think he was trying to go out his way to criticise the fans? No. Do I think you are justified in feeling that he directed unwarranted criticism towards you? Yes. However, exchanging comments on Twitter in the heat of the moment simply is ideal for plenty of misunderstanding and ill thought comments and often does not actually present anyone's true views and opinions.
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Post by PaperSaint on Dec 4, 2014 9:43:03 GMT
not "is ideal" but "isn't ideal"...
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Post by cheshuntsaint on Dec 4, 2014 9:50:58 GMT
Just trying to put it all into perspective. Do I think he was trying to go out his way to criticise the fans? No. Do I think you are justified in feeling that he directed unwarranted criticism towards you? Yes. However, exchanging comments on Twitter in the heat of the moment simply is ideal for plenty of misunderstanding and ill thought comments and often does not actually present anyone's true views and opinions. I do see where you are coming from - firstly it wasn't me who got invovled with him on twitter, secondly, im just a tad frustrated with the way we (the fans) have been treated this season. This should have been an exciting season - back where we belong etc - and it just feels we (the fans) have been treated like dirt 1) I'm not going to harp on about it but the admission prices are outrageous - and for the owners to say we need to average 750 every week is ridiculous - how about you get rid of some of the big earners and bring in players who have experience at this level - that will lower the wage bill. 2) The Frendo situation - no need to go into anymore detail - i guarentee none of those playrs had the balls to stand up in the changing room and have a go at him? 3) Players getting into disputes with the supporters this season over social media - Lee Chappell / Ben Martin. 4) Can someone please explain to me what on earth the Trust have been doing / are intending to do? 5) Why has the snowball stopped being draw on the pitch? It's done behind closed doors - reminds me of a previous competition we ran which found us out to be a fix. Its just very frustrating at the moment - the club needs to take a hard look at itself and work out where it wants to go - because at the minute with crowds on the way down and a very high wage bill - its clear for all to see the direction we are heading.
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Post by PaperSaint on Dec 4, 2014 10:03:04 GMT
"1) I'm not going to harp on about it but the admission prices are outrageous - and for the owners to say we need to average 750 every week is ridiculous - how about you get rid of some of the big earners and bring in players who have experience at this level - that will lower the wage bill."
Agree with the first point but I feel the club are falling short in terms of getting people through the gate at CP. There is so much more they could and should be doing. However, I do feel that some of the loan players brought in have made a huge difference - Gayle for example has made a big difference to our defence as has Beckles. We would not have come away from Basingstoke with a 1-0 win without those two and I doubt we would have also held up against Havant either.
"2) The Frendo situation - no need to go into anymore detail - i guarentee none of those playrs had the balls to stand up in the changing room and have a go at him?"
From what I know, he was put in a difficult situation but probably enough said already about that unfortunate situation.
"3) Players getting into disputes with the supporters this season over social media - Lee Chappell / Ben Martin."
This is again where the club should be supporting them ie providing them with advice on social media usage but we still also want to hear their views as well.
"4) Can someone please explain to me what on earth the Trust have been doing / are intending to do? "
Can't comment but am going to join as I do want to get more involved.
"5) Why has the snowball stopped being draw on the pitch? It's done behind closed doors - reminds me of a previous competition we ran which found us out to be a fix."
Decent point
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Post by EFMTFTV on Dec 4, 2014 14:36:08 GMT
I've always found Ben to be nice off the field
I think my issue with him at the moment, and I'm sure its the same issue as most reasonable supporters will have, is one week he plays like the defender who ended up in the Conf South team of the season and the next week he plays like he shouldn't get into that Sunday league team he plays for
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Post by Boomer on Dec 4, 2014 14:42:46 GMT
.....................Bloomer will will start to pick up on your spelling. What a droll fellow you are, fatboy. I'd be more than a little careful, though, about the inclusion of the word 'fraud', when you post.
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Post by Boomer on Dec 4, 2014 15:05:56 GMT
................I do see where you are coming from - firstly it wasn't me who got invovled with him on twitter.............. No, you are indeed correct on that count but seemingly it was you that took the time and effort in the first place to trawl through Ben's Twitter account and plant the seed of discontent on this forum and the furore, which has ensued.
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Post by cheshuntsaint on Dec 4, 2014 15:43:50 GMT
................I do see where you are coming from - firstly it wasn't me who got invovled with him on twitter.............. No, you are indeed correct on that count but seemingly it was you that took the time and effort in the first place to trawl through Ben's Twitter account and plant the seed of discontent on this forum and the furore, which has ensued. I'm sorry Boomer, i thought people on this forum would be interested in hearing what our Captain has to say regarding our fans etc......My Mistake, Sorry Boomer, won't happen again Boomer, i can assure you of that Boomer.
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fatboy
Saints Youth Team Player
Posts: 200
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Post by fatboy on Dec 4, 2014 16:06:38 GMT
What would you call it it then Bloomer , the rule states clearly it should be done on the pitch at half time.
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Post by Boomer on Dec 4, 2014 17:07:57 GMT
No, you are indeed correct on that count but seemingly it was you that took the time and effort in the first place to trawl through Ben's Twitter account and plant the seed of discontent on this forum and the furore, which has ensued. I'm sorry Boomer, i thought people on this forum would be interested in hearing what our Captain has to say regarding our fans etc......My Mistake, Sorry Boomer, won't happen again Boomer, i can assure you of that Boomer. Grow up, mate. The original tweets from this wind up merchant were about Ben's right to a place in the side and team selection etc and how much money Ben is on. Why would you even be searching through his Twitter page in the first place? Do you trawl through every single Saints player's Twitter account every day or something. Virtually every single thing you post on this forum is negative. It might be good if you tried to look on the positive side once in a while.
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Post by Boomer on Dec 4, 2014 17:12:03 GMT
What would you call it it then Bloomer , the rule states clearly it should be done on the pitch at half time. Not for me to say. I'm sure others within the Club will have their own view.
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Post by cheshuntsaint on Dec 4, 2014 17:21:54 GMT
I'm sorry Boomer, i thought people on this forum would be interested in hearing what our Captain has to say regarding our fans etc......My Mistake, Sorry Boomer, won't happen again Boomer, i can assure you of that Boomer. Grow up, mate. The original tweets from this wind up merchant were about Ben's right to a place in the side and team selection etc and how much money Ben is on. Why would you even be searching through his Twitter page in the first place? Do you trawl through every single Saints player's Twitter account every day or something. Virtually every single thing you post on this forum is negative. It might be good if you tried to look on the positive side once in a while. Thanks for that Boomer. No 'Mate' I don't trawl through Saints players twitter pages - I noticed Graham Golds had commented on of Ben Martins tweets - so i had a look - again apologies for showing an interest in the Saints - and i spotted that Ben was having a dig at our fans suggesting that the Wealdstone fans out did us etc....and i shared this on the Message board - again sorry for doing this. Secondly - you are entitled to your opinion just as much as I am entitled to mine. Just because you are clearly viewing the club through yellow and blue tinted glasses doesn't mean that others are. If you can't see that this club is a laughing stock at the mnute then you need to wake up to the realisation that it is - £15 Entrance, Frendo, Social Media, the fact that the chairman doesn't engage with any of the supporters on match days (and don't say he does because i have witnessed this) - the fact that we have a supporters trust who keep the supporters in the dark, the fact that we run a snowball (apparently) but no one see's it being drawn so for all we know it could be a fix. I will start being more positive once we have something to be positive about - because at the minute i'm spending hard earned money following this club home and away and what am I getting in return?
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Post by Saint on Dec 4, 2014 17:40:23 GMT
Just a reminder that this Is a friendly forum, and we don't wish to see any personal attacks. (not that there has been any thus far)
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Post by Daedalus on Dec 4, 2014 18:25:29 GMT
Hi all. Just a friendly reminder of our forum rules - saintschat.proboards.com/thread/204/forum-guidelines-read-before-postingIn particular, I would like to highlight the following: First of all, a post in this thread has been removed because it made unfounded allegations against the club. This could get the forum into trouble and it could also have ramifications for the user who made the post. Therefore, this post has been deleted. If you have concerns about something that the club are doing, it is always best to contact the club in the first instance. Furthermore, some of the comments about players on the forum have been simply unacceptable. Constructive criticism is always welcome. What is not acceptable is personal attacks or attacking the professionalism and integrity of players and/or the management team. Please remember that we are dealing with real people here who are suffering these personal attacks. Personally, I think some of the comments have been disgraceful and I don't want this forum to be associated with this kind of antagonistic behaviour. Those who are continually posting to tarnish the name of the club or any individual associated with the club will be banned. Finally, one of the goals of Saints Chat is to be a welcoming and friendly forum. Please do not engage in trolling (posting with the intention to antagonise others or posting to incite a reaction from a fellow poster). RESPECT is the key word, so to use a football metaphor, please ensure you PLAY THE BALL (the issue) and NOT THE MAN (a fellow poster). Moderation on this site is always done with as light a touch as possible. We try to let everyone voice their opinions and have their say. However, please remember that we are here to support the club and also that we aim to be an inclusive, family forum.
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boojiboy
Saints Reserve Team Player
Posts: 329
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Post by boojiboy on Dec 4, 2014 20:06:47 GMT
Just trying to put it all into perspective. Do I think he was trying to go out his way to criticise the fans? No. Do I think you are justified in feeling that he directed unwarranted criticism towards you? Yes. However, exchanging comments on Twitter in the heat of the moment simply is ideal for plenty of misunderstanding and ill thought comments and often does not actually present anyone's true views and opinions. I do see where you are coming from - firstly it wasn't me who got invovled with him on twitter, secondly, im just a tad frustrated with the way we (the fans) have been treated this season. This should have been an exciting season - back where we belong etc - and it just feels we (the fans) have been treated like dirt 1) I'm not going to harp on about it but the admission prices are outrageous - and for the owners to say we need to average 750 every week is ridiculous - how about you get rid of some of the big earners and bring in players who have experience at this level - that will lower the wage bill. 2) The Frendo situation - no need to go into anymore detail - i guarentee none of those playrs had the balls to stand up in the changing room and have a go at him? 3) Players getting into disputes with the supporters this season over social media - Lee Chappell / Ben Martin. 4) Can someone please explain to me what on earth the Trust have been doing / are intending to do? 5) Why has the snowball stopped being draw on the pitch? It's done behind closed doors - reminds me of a previous competition we ran which found us out to be a fix. Its just very frustrating at the moment - the club needs to take a hard look at itself and work out where it wants to go - because at the minute with crowds on the way down and a very high wage bill - its clear for all to see the direction we are heading. What on earth has this got to do with the Trust? Should they be confiscating player's passports so that they cannot travel mid-season? Should they be arranging for player's Twitter accounts to be cancelled? With regard to the ridiculous pricing strategy, a survey of the entry prices of other Conference South clubs was carried out which established that we would be out of line with the rest of the league. The Trust strongly objected to the proposed admission price of £15 on behalf of supporters but the Board went ahead with it anyway. I know this because this was included within the newsletter that Trust members were sent.
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Post by asaintreborn on Dec 4, 2014 20:46:18 GMT
I agree with all of that, lonecrank. I have known Ben for probably something like 10 years and he is a top bloke, who will always make time to talk to you, whether it be on an away coach or after one of our games. A nicer guy you couldn't wish to meet and arrogant he most definitely is not. Yes, he probably should not have got sucked into a spat with the person but I do have some sympathy. Personal abuse against a player is bang out of order, whether it be on a social network site or a forum and a genuine supporter of SACFC he is not or he would not be making such utterances. He maybe a sound guy in the bar - but to get into a dispute criticising the fans who travelled on a bitterly cold Tuesday evening to witness that performance is a disgrace. Actually Emjem who originally set the spat off by replying "what else could it be" to Bens first tweet, which was something along the lines of "only being picked because he was Jimmy mate", didn't actually even attend the game. Looked like a typical keyboard warrior reply and unfortunately Benny took the bait.
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fatboy
Saints Youth Team Player
Posts: 200
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Post by fatboy on Dec 4, 2014 20:46:49 GMT
I am amazed you took down my post, I must have missed the snowball draws on the pitch clearly your saw them being drawn at half time. unfounded allegations I don not think so.Most of the things I put in that post are pro St Albans City FC and supported the club efforts to send players to schools and bringing younger supporters into the park, Clearly you know who I am so feel free to ask me to justify my comments.
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Post by asaintreborn on Dec 4, 2014 20:58:22 GMT
I'm sorry Boomer, i thought people on this forum would be interested in hearing what our Captain has to say regarding our fans etc......My Mistake, Sorry Boomer, won't happen again Boomer, i can assure you of that Boomer. Grow up, mate. The original tweets from this wind up merchant were about Ben's right to a place in the side and team selection etc and how much money Ben is on. Why would you even be searching through his Twitter page in the first place? Do you trawl through every single Saints player's Twitter account every day or something. Virtually every single thing you post on this forum is negative. It might be good if you tried to look on the positive side once in a while. Boomer I'm not taking cheshunt saints side, but just wanted to clear up how twitter works. I take it you don't use it? If you follow/add someone on twitter their tweets/msgs appear on your homepage. So anyone who follows Ben would have instantly have seen the debate. A lot of the fans follow the players and a lot of the players follow back. I've had a few conversation with locke and Chappel for example on there.
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fatboy
Saints Youth Team Player
Posts: 200
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Post by fatboy on Dec 4, 2014 21:21:00 GMT
One last word on this subject , maybe it worked as the super draw will be on the pitch at half time on Saturday.
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Post by cheshuntsaint on Dec 4, 2014 21:49:51 GMT
I do see where you are coming from - firstly it wasn't me who got invovled with him on twitter, secondly, im just a tad frustrated with the way we (the fans) have been treated this season. This should have been an exciting season - back where we belong etc - and it just feels we (the fans) have been treated like dirt 1) I'm not going to harp on about it but the admission prices are outrageous - and for the owners to say we need to average 750 every week is ridiculous - how about you get rid of some of the big earners and bring in players who have experience at this level - that will lower the wage bill. 2) The Frendo situation - no need to go into anymore detail - i guarentee none of those playrs had the balls to stand up in the changing room and have a go at him? 3) Players getting into disputes with the supporters this season over social media - Lee Chappell / Ben Martin. 4) Can someone please explain to me what on earth the Trust have been doing / are intending to do? 5) Why has the snowball stopped being draw on the pitch? It's done behind closed doors - reminds me of a previous competition we ran which found us out to be a fix. Its just very frustrating at the moment - the club needs to take a hard look at itself and work out where it wants to go - because at the minute with crowds on the way down and a very high wage bill - its clear for all to see the direction we are heading. What on earth has this got to do with the Trust? Should they be confiscating player's passports so that they cannot travel mid-season? Should they be arranging for player's Twitter accounts to be cancelled? With regard to the ridiculous pricing strategy, a survey of the entry prices of other Conference South clubs was carried out which established that we would be out of line with the rest of the league. The Trust strongly objected to the proposed admission price of £15 on behalf of supporters but the Board went ahead with it anyway. I know this because this was included within the newsletter that Trust members were sent. Ok so the trust said they didn't agree with the £15 admission price .... That's fair enough and what else have they done? You hear virtually nothing of them on match days / through the week ?
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Post by cheshuntsaint on Dec 4, 2014 21:54:46 GMT
And Daedalus - I'm guessing you are referring to my point about swanning about in new trainers / hats with an attitude etc - I only posted this due to recent experience at away games, most notably Eastbourne - traveling 6 hours + spending in excess of £100 watching a decent performance but a loss, being in the bar after the game, and not one saints players acknowledged the fans and they were all in brand new nike trainers / stupid hats - it's more of a generalisation that the current crop of players feel they are a cut above the fans - which is a shame.
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fatboy
Saints Youth Team Player
Posts: 200
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Post by fatboy on Dec 5, 2014 7:47:52 GMT
Did the trust also disagree with the raise from ten pounds to £12(other teams normal price was £10 at the time) last season, which saw the end of chairman Ian Ridley. Maybe we should have a forum/discussion on the trust where supporters members or not of the trust can ask questions after all the trust runs for the good of the club and remember its our club.
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Post by PaperSaint on Dec 5, 2014 8:23:10 GMT
Not sure this is the right thread for this discussion. However, my own view is that the trust is for supporters but relies on supporters becoming members (and that raises the possibility of supporters actually owning a share of the club which is where we should be). If people are unhappy with it, they need to remember it is run by volunteers but also become a part of it. I will be joining because I do agree with its ultimate aim and the more who join the better and stronger it will become.
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Post by minty on Dec 5, 2014 12:29:11 GMT
It has always been the same issue on here mjhill1967. People very quick to criticize the Trust when the club/team don't perform how they wish. However, they don't seem to want to get involved with the Trust as a vehicle. All mouth and no trousers springs to mind!!! Now if they are unhappy with how the Trust is performing maybe they should actually speak to a member of the board. Remember, how human beings used to communicate with each other...speaking to one another!!
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Post by Hatboy on Dec 5, 2014 23:40:50 GMT
One last word on this subject , maybe it worked as the super draw will be on the pitch at half time on Saturday. It needs to be it is a serious amount of money !
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Post by citycentresaint on Dec 6, 2014 0:48:50 GMT
Sad state of affairs.
I have spoke to Ben before and he is an affable chap.
Considering we scrapped up, I think we are doing pretty well.
The issue has been the £15 entry fee has heaped pressure on us to be a team at the top of the table. We were not even close to the leaders in the Southern Premier, so why should we walk the Conference South ?
Does feel like all the good PR from last year is being eroded.
Ultimately we need a new ground in order to climb the leagues, otherwise we will be left at this level for a long time.
COYS
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