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Post by PaperSaint on Feb 24, 2015 10:24:34 GMT
Like the comparison - however, I still feel the comparison of lack of action with a local club and action with a non local club's training facilities (however big or small) is a point worth making
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Post by 2penniesworth on Feb 24, 2015 10:51:26 GMT
Do you think it would be prudent in light of all the views, opinions and suggestions regarding this matter that those intending to attend the forum compile a list of targeted questions for the Club/Owners to respond to? I am unable to attend but am concerned that with the potential for emotions running high it could be prudent to ensure that nothing is missed nor that blood is shed!
I think it would be a good idea if someone could to minute the session to ensure that those that cannot attend get the full facts- I would like to ask the Owners to provide a full manifesto with short/medium and long term plans (including how these will be financed) but I doubt it will be forthcoming somehow.
I'd also like to challenge the Commercial manager on how he is/plans to or even if he is targeted with bringing in revenue to the Club outside of traditional advertising and sponsorship. There is a limited number of hoardings available- what else? what next?
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Post by Hatboy on Feb 24, 2015 18:47:12 GMT
Not really comparable schemes are they? City's owners are proposing a relatively major development in an area yet to be defined within the green belt. This will require a change of use, new infrastructures, new roads and possible put extra strain on existing services such as schools. Remember it's not just a new football stadium. Meanwhile, all Arsenal appear to be doing is expanding their existing facilities. Why couldn't it be ? the council have been silent but it still cant be compared with arsenal if the ioc said they want st albans to host the olympics the council will get more involved than if some teenage single mum wants a birthday party outside the town hall I think your highlighting there that it's all about money
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Post by Canary Saint on Feb 24, 2015 20:16:35 GMT
Not really comparable schemes are they? City's owners are proposing a relatively major development in an area yet to be defined within the green belt. This will require a change of use, new infrastructures, new roads and possible put extra strain on existing services such as schools. Remember it's not just a new football stadium. Meanwhile, all Arsenal appear to be doing is expanding their existing facilities. Why couldn't it be ? I think you need to ask the Club owners that. Correct me if I am wrong, but the schemes put forward so far include the stadium as part of a larger (profit making) development
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2015 8:14:18 GMT
hatboy it is all about money, see the original save our saints article !
it can't just be a new football stadium because the owners can't afford that, it will cost them less if they split it with a housing developer like barratts or whatever
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Post by Hatboy on Feb 25, 2015 17:46:48 GMT
It could be if it had a 3G pitch/es next to it, banqueting suite/s, bar, gym, shops etc you could still make money from it (hate to have you use them as an example but Hemel are), the owners want a housing development with it to make a killing
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Post by EFMTFTV on Feb 25, 2015 17:59:35 GMT
Yeah but where does the money to build it come from, that would only work if the council put their hands in their pockets
The housing would pay for the ground and the 3G's and the suites etc outright to start off with and thats the whole point
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Post by Hatboy on Feb 25, 2015 20:00:49 GMT
No the whole point is that they bought the club purely on the hope of getting planning permission to build houses to make lots of money
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Post by Canary Saint on Feb 25, 2015 21:23:49 GMT
No the whole point is that they bought the club purely on the hope of getting planning permission to build houses to make lots of money Exactly!
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Post by steve27 on Feb 25, 2015 21:32:28 GMT
As a long time Saints supporter I would like to put forward a thought.
I regard Clarance Park as fine for the football club at present and even in the Conference Premier although some refurbishment is required. The location near to the city centre and train station are ideal and the playing surface is excellent. The problem of course is that it cannot be used to generate money outside of football days.
What about the possibility of building a clubhouse and conference room facility at the training ground at Oaklands College?
The collage could use the facility during the week until 6pm and the football club could have use after 6pm weekdays and at weekends to hire it out for weddings, birthday parties, evening conferences etc to generate money. As this facility would benefit the college and local community it is likely to gain planning permission. Oaklands is in a good location between St Albans and Hatfield and has car parking facilities so would be attractive to people wishing to hire the clubhouse and/or conference room.
The football club owners and Oaklands would need to agree on freehold / leasehold and building costs but as Oaklands are looking to update their facilities it should be easy to negotiate a good deal that would benefit both parties. The owners would not make as much money as they would by developing a housing estate but it may give them a way of covering costs and maybe make a little money. This would allow the football club to continue playing football at Clarance Park but give the owners the ability to generate money from the clubhouse / conference room facilities at the training ground at Oaklands College.
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Post by PaperSaint on Feb 25, 2015 22:05:31 GMT
I think there a number of options that deliver a sustainable platform for the football club going forwards - key is what the owners want ie are they happy to run a club that is viable and doesn't leak their money or do they want to go beyond that and also make a tidy sum of money from a development project that is wider than the football club
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Post by bob666 on Feb 25, 2015 23:41:39 GMT
Yeah but where does the money to build it come from, that would only work if the council put their hands in their pockets The housing would pay for the ground and the 3G's and the suites etc outright to start off with and thats the whole point Yes but surely then the owners are just asking the council to pay for it another way- through the supranormal profits that come from granting planning permission on a green belt land.
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fatboy
Saints Youth Team Player
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Post by fatboy on Feb 25, 2015 23:54:38 GMT
Could aways fit a 4 g pitch down the park and rent it out on the days and nights the team don't need it , should pull in a fair amount of money, and yes I do believe sport England and lottery money could be raised to help pay for some of the work. Maybe the local council would also put money into the ground as it would profit from the extra use of the pitch. quite easy to turn the pitch into two five a side pitches for local clubs to play on. I mean if the two owners are now putting in 100.000 in each year it would save them a fair amount each year in costs and upkeep of the grass pitch.
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Post by bob666 on Feb 26, 2015 1:14:55 GMT
Your not allowed artificial pitches at conference south level. Maidstone have had issues with this. So if we had a 3G pitch this would mean limiting ourselves to southern league. For what its worth I think the rule is ridiculous. A modern artificial pitch offers a clearly superior playing surface to some of bogs you see at our level and I think they should be allowed throughout the non-league. I think artificial pitches still have a image problem dating back to the truly dreadful pitches we saw in the 1980s. A 3G pitch in the middle of St Albans would be a real moneyspinner- pay for itself easily
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yellowalf
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Post by yellowalf on Feb 26, 2015 7:47:15 GMT
Your not allowed artificial pitches at conference south level. Maidstone have had issues with this. So if we had a 3G pitch this would mean limiting ourselves to southern league. For what its worth I think the rule is ridiculous. A modern artificial pitch offers a clearly superior playing surface to some of bogs you see at our level and I think they should be allowed throughout the non-league. I think artificial pitches still have a image problem dating back to the truly dreadful pitches we saw in the 1980s. A 3G pitch in the middle of St Albans would be a real moneyspinner- pay for itself easily Absolutely agree with this: modern plastic pitches are light-years away from the bouncy castles of Kenilworth Road and Loftus Road in the 80's; the advantages of installing 4G pitches are legion and the disadvantages boil down to initial cost which is recuperable over time. I think that a lot of the football establishment are burying their head in the sand with their refusal to embrace artificial pitches. All those League clubs who share their ground with rugby would still have a quality surface to play on in March rather than the ploughed fields that proliferate in the lower divisions of the football league. For non-league football, installation of 4G pitches is a real no-brainer and I cannot understand why local councils appear to be unable to see the investment benefits of their usage.
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yellowalf
Saints Reserve Team Player
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Post by yellowalf on Feb 26, 2015 8:24:57 GMT
As a long time Saints supporter I would like to put forward a thought. I regard Clarance Park as fine for the football club at present and even in the Conference Premier although some refurbishment is required. The location near to the city centre and train station are ideal and the playing surface is excellent. I think the pertinent point to take from your post, Steve, is that the owners don't agree with the first bit! While CP may look perfect for Conf Premier from the outside - and it certainly is compared to some of the grounds there now - apparently the inside isn't. I understood from the time that the new stadium plans were announced, that there were plenty of areas behind the scenes that needed updating: team dressing rooms, segregated dressing rooms for officials and the like. I don't remember it being said that the Clarence Park wasn't suitable now (or even then) but it was being stated that it was highly likely going forward there would be a time when the ground wouldn't be fit for Conference football due to the facilities. The owners said they were unable to facilitate the necessary improvements to CP, and I can't remember if that was because they weren't permitted to or because they wouldn't be able to recoup the cost from current income streams. Either way their solution to keeping St Albans City FC upwardly mobil was to move to a new purpose-build ground including facilities that would generate income on non-match days. With the cost of land increasing almost monthly this isn't the time to sit and ponder the options: the building cost of a new ground is increasing as I type which is/was a very good reason for the owners to make a move now/then and not wait until the Conference said that Clarence Park didn't meet their regulations be that in two, five or even ten years time. That so many obstacles seem to be placed in their way is symptomatic of the culture of St Albans as a city: the majority of the residents do not care for a football club of their own. As citycentreaint said here: saintschat.proboards.com/post/25672/thread, "something needs to be done"; as sitting still will only result in the end of St Albans City FC as a progressive football club. By which I mean if you'd be happy watching Saints play at Step 4 or 5 then that's where we'll be. And there are many of the current regular supporters who would prefer that to paying £15 to see Conf South football. The club is at a crossroads, either a new stadium is built for the current owners to keep the club growing or we will end up playing at the same level as London Colney FC. Unless someone who loves the football club wins the lottery.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2015 9:45:52 GMT
thats very black and white yellow alf, as i said before chairmen come and go, so this crossroads is of mcgowan and levys making has that much changed in terms of regulations since the conference season ? will that much change ? how do people know that ? budgeting on an average crowd of 1000 is crazy - if clarence park works at the moment why don't we focus on that for starters
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Post by Ex-HertsAd, Still Mike on Feb 26, 2015 9:49:48 GMT
If you can't make it to the forum tonight and have a question that you want answered, post it on here and I'll try to get an answer for you.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2015 9:57:24 GMT
who decided to budget on an average attendance of 750 or even 1000, and how did they come to that figure
do they regret the 15 quid ticket price
how would mcgowan 'just walk away' - would he sell it
ignore me hertsadmike im just rambling !
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Post by jj123 on Feb 26, 2015 10:41:20 GMT
An update from the trust on what it is they actually do please - apart from a Monthly Snowball which isn't held on the pitch anymore - reminds me of the old 200 club.
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Post by notsorecentconvert on Feb 26, 2015 10:47:47 GMT
If you can't make it to the forum tonight and have a question that you want answered, post it on here and I'll try to get an answer for you. Question for the fans forum for HertsAdMike: Has the money Mr McGowan and Mr Levy say they have put in been in the form of loans?
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Post by bob666 on Feb 26, 2015 11:10:24 GMT
The club is at a crossroads, either a new stadium is built for the current owners to keep the club growing or we will end up playing at the same level as London Colney FC.
Unless someone who loves the football club wins the lottery.
[/quote]
I sorry I just don't understand on what you base this statement. There nothing inevitable about a fall to this level if the owners leave or we fail to get a new ground. I have given a number of examples of fan owned clubs with similar size support base as St Albans who play a reasonable levels. An extreme example is Hendon who have a smaller support base than us, do not have their own ground or owners and are currently sitting in the play off positions in the Isthmain league. What important is how supporters manage any transition
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2015 11:19:54 GMT
not to mention we've been at this level a million times before
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fatboy
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Post by fatboy on Feb 26, 2015 11:49:44 GMT
I think your find the conference has changed the rule and 4G pitches are now going to be allowed at our level. Maidstone if they win or get promoted will be in our League next year.
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fatboy
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Post by fatboy on Feb 26, 2015 11:53:00 GMT
Another point jj123 , your have to learn never to ask questions or even question what the trust do on here,
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2015 11:59:52 GMT
careful fatboy youll get banned maybe 4g is the answer to these 'problems'
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Post by Saint on Feb 26, 2015 13:27:10 GMT
Just to clarify- As long as there is no personal abuse of any individual, and you stick within the forum guidelines, when talking about/questioning the Trust, then there will be no issues or anyone banned like some of the previous post suggest.
This is a forum, all opinions and views are welcome, whether they be supportive of the trust, club etc, or not.
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Post by Hatboy on Feb 26, 2015 17:39:41 GMT
That so many obstacles seem to be placed in their way is symptomatic of the culture of St Albans as a city: the majority of the residents do not care for a football club of their own. That's because most of them aren't even from here origionally !
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Post by citycentresaint on Feb 26, 2015 18:20:14 GMT
St Albans is changing, is becoming increasingly gentrified with local people being forced to move away.
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yellowalf
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Post by yellowalf on Feb 26, 2015 19:53:21 GMT
I sorry I just don't understand on what you base this statement. There nothing inevitable about a fall to this level if the owners leave or we fail to get a new ground. I have given a number of examples of fan owned clubs with similar size support base as St Albans who play a reasonable levels. An extreme example is Hendon who have a smaller support base than us, do not have their own ground or owners and are currently sitting in the play off positions in the Isthmain league. What important is how supporters manage any transition Aren't Hendon the exception? When I used to watch Hendon they played at Claremont Road, they don't play there anymore. In any case, St Albans City is, in my view, incomparable to Hendon's situation. I've based my original statement on the response of the city of St Albans to supporting their football club, the past ownership and financial struggles of the football club itself, and the plethora of other clubs of the same size who have either disappeared altogether or ended up playing at significantly lower levels than previously used to. We can debate between the Hendons and Ketterings of football on this site; and the truth of what will happen to St Albans City will inevitably lie somewhere in between. Whatever our views, the way football is changing and the current economic situation of this country means that time is if the essence in creating a positive outcome for the club's future; we can't just sit and wait to see what happens with Clarence Park and the local council. The facts are that this club is unsustainable in its current situation for the current owners and if they decide to leave, what then? St Albans City Trust appears incapable of taking the football club over, although please correct me if I am wrong. There is no-one else around who is able to keep this club running at its current losses. In the scenario where the owners bale out and the Trust is unable to run the club at Conference South level, what do you see as an effective alternative?
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