albanian
Saints Reserve Team Player
Posts: 372
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Post by albanian on Jun 26, 2019 9:18:56 GMT
Judging from jj123's poll there's significant appetite for a boycott of home games next season. I'm in the process of pulling together a collection of fan statements from those joining the boycott, which will be passed on to the owners. Not sure if it will make any difference, but should at least give them pause for thought. I'd really appreciate any submissions from those that plan to join the boycott. Anything from a couple of lines to a long, rambling essay. All greatly received. Either reply to the thread, send me a private message or email me if you'd rather maintain your forum anonymity (a_levey@hotmail.com) As a starting point you might want to include some or all of these: - How long you've been going to watch St Albans City
- What the club means to you
- Why you're against the price rise and feel the need to boycott
- Name
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Post by scottishsaint on Jun 26, 2019 9:55:40 GMT
I'd get the Herts Ad on board first to really give this some weight, otherwise I can imagine it just being tossed in the bin
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Post by supersonic on Jun 26, 2019 10:06:24 GMT
252 quid for a season ticket = 12 quid per game. An increase from 10 per game last year but not exactly going to stop me going to matches.
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albanian
Saints Reserve Team Player
Posts: 372
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Post by albanian on Jun 26, 2019 10:08:20 GMT
I'd get the Herts Ad on board first to really give this some weight, otherwise I can imagine it just being tossed in the bin Yeah fair point. Will also send it through to them and see if we can get them to run a piece on it. Would you be willing to contribute?
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albanian
Saints Reserve Team Player
Posts: 372
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Post by albanian on Jun 26, 2019 10:28:36 GMT
252 quid for a season ticket = 12 quid per game. An increase from 10 per game last year but not exactly going to stop me going to matches. For me it's more about how this undoes so much of the good work done by volunteers in engaging the local community. I'm not that bothered by the prospect of paying an extra £50 a season, but this will have a seriously damaging affect on bringing in new fans. £18 is too much for the casual fan.
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Post by scottishsaint on Jun 26, 2019 10:31:40 GMT
Again if it were me (which it isn't) I'd get the Herts Ad involved from day 1 when you're starting to compile the thing, rather than just sending them a copy at the end of the process.
I'm not sure on contributing just yet, but will give it some thought
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Post by scottishsaint on Jun 26, 2019 10:32:17 GMT
252 quid for a season ticket = 12 quid per game. An increase from 10 per game last year but not exactly going to stop me going to matches. For me it's more about how this undoes so much of the good work done by volunteers in engaging the local community. I'm not that bothered by the prospect of paying an extra £50 a season, but this will have a seriously damaging affect on bringing in new fans. £18 is too much for the casual fan. A 9% increase every year for the last 7 years, don't forget
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Boycott
Jun 26, 2019 13:15:59 GMT
via mobile
Post by pitchsidesaint on Jun 26, 2019 13:15:59 GMT
I don't like the £18 pay on the day price. I don't particularly mind the season ticket prices - I actually feel that some clubs undermine the value of the product with low cost season tickets. And anyway they do that based on non-matchday revenues that simply aren't available to us. I will tell the owners that I think £18 is excessive but I won't be boycotting or protesting about it. Whatever anyone thinks, we get subsidised prices for our enjoyment of matchday at Clarence Park due to the owners covering the annual shortfall. There is no lining of pockets going on here just a debate on how much prices should be subsidised. Protests and boycotts devalue the opposition to truly terrible ownership issues that have been seen in recent times at clubs like Blackpool and Gateshead. This is very, very different.
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Post by saintsdad on Jun 26, 2019 13:21:31 GMT
I don't like the £18 pay on the day price. I don't particularly mind the season ticket prices - I actually feel that some clubs undermine the value of the product with low cost season tickets. And anyway they do that based on non-matchday revenues that simply aren't available to us. I will tell the owners that I think £18 is excessive but I won't be boycotting or protesting about it. Whatever anyone thinks, we get subsidised prices for our enjoyment of matchday at Clarence Park due to the owners covering the annual shortfall. There is no lining of pockets going on here just a debate on how much prices should be subsidised. Protests and boycotts devalue the opposition to truly terrible ownership issues that have been seen in recent times at clubs like Blackpool and Gateshead. This is very, very different.
What a load of Appy-Clappy rubbish
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Post by ahad43 on Jun 26, 2019 13:50:25 GMT
I'll write something for you albanian
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albanian
Saints Reserve Team Player
Posts: 372
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Post by albanian on Jun 26, 2019 14:44:49 GMT
I'll write something for you albanian Cheers mate!!
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Post by ahad43 on Jun 26, 2019 14:53:02 GMT
Will send it via PM probably later today
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albanian
Saints Reserve Team Player
Posts: 372
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Post by albanian on Jun 26, 2019 15:08:41 GMT
I don't like the £18 pay on the day price. I don't particularly mind the season ticket prices - I actually feel that some clubs undermine the value of the product with low cost season tickets. And anyway they do that based on non-matchday revenues that simply aren't available to us. I will tell the owners that I think £18 is excessive but I won't be boycotting or protesting about it. Whatever anyone thinks, we get subsidised prices for our enjoyment of matchday at Clarence Park due to the owners covering the annual shortfall. There is no lining of pockets going on here just a debate on how much prices should be subsidised. Protests and boycotts devalue the opposition to truly terrible ownership issues that have been seen in recent times at clubs like Blackpool and Gateshead. This is very, very different. I'm not suggesting the owners are trying to fleece the fans. I'm grateful for their investment into the club, but they're barking up the wrong tree if they think this is the way to go about reducing the shortfall. £15 is already the highest in the division and any more than that will start to seriously affect attendances. Protests and boycotts devalue nothing. It's important as fans that we take an active role in what happens with our club, rather than just accepting everything without question. If they want to have a serious conversation about how we can raise additional funds for the club then I'm sure people would be happy to come together.
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Post by scottishsaint on Jun 26, 2019 15:24:04 GMT
It's a loan rather than an investment isn't it? Either way I'm not sure the figures that have been quoted in the press are strictly accurate, but that's by the by.
Low cost season tickets don't devalue anything either.
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yellowalf
Saints Reserve Team Player
Posts: 301
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Post by yellowalf on Jun 27, 2019 9:22:48 GMT
I don't like the £18 pay on the day price. I don't particularly mind the season ticket prices - I actually feel that some clubs undermine the value of the product with low cost season tickets. And anyway they do that based on non-matchday revenues that simply aren't available to us. I will tell the owners that I think £18 is excessive but I won't be boycotting or protesting about it. Whatever anyone thinks, we get subsidised prices for our enjoyment of matchday at Clarence Park due to the owners covering the annual shortfall. There is no lining of pockets going on here just a debate on how much prices should be subsidised. Protests and boycotts devalue the opposition to truly terrible ownership issues that have been seen in recent times at clubs like Blackpool and Gateshead. This is very, very different. I'm not suggesting the owners are trying to fleece the fans. I'm grateful for their investment into the club, but they're barking up the wrong tree if they think this is the way to go about reducing the shortfall. £15 is already the highest in the division and any more than that will start to seriously affect attendances. Protests and boycotts devalue nothing. It's important as fans that we take an active role in what happens with our club, rather than just accepting everything without question. If they want to have a serious conversation about how we can raise additional funds for the club then I'm sure people would be happy to come together. I don't really understand why this is still a source of such consternation five years after the cost of admission last went up. The increase from £15 to £18 is 20%, or 4% per year. Inflation has run at 13% over that time so the increase is above inflation. But as we all know, not all costs increase at the rate of inflation. As I wrote back in 2014, £3 per home game is roughly 30p per day. As I also said back then "We'll all have something that we buy that, if we insisted on making St Albans City FC a priority for our disposable income, we would be happy to make a £3 saving on. The problem is that [...] we're not making St Albans City FC a priority for our cash; instead we're trying to think of reasons why we won't go to games as often. But I enjoy going to watch St Albans City FC - why would I want to go less often?"
There are a number of ways you can look at any price increase. As someone once said, 100% of nothing is nothing. We can talk of the 25% increase or we can talk about £3 per fortnight (roughly speaking). We can say that a season ticket costs less than £5 per week which, of course, doesn't take into consideration that if you put £1 into a piggy bank every weekday from today you won't have enough to buy a season ticket for this coming season. But lets take another look at the three pound increase. From August 1st to April 30th is (hold on a moment.....) about 38 weeks. So during the season we have a home league game every 11 days. Therefore, why not look at the increased cost of admission as being 28p per day for the duration of the football season? Is there anyone of us who seriously cannot afford £3 every 11 days? Maybe there is but I would hazard a guess that all of us spend that amount of money a fortnight on things we could easily do without. For me, Costa Coffee will be selling one medium Americano fewer (or maybe one blueberry muffin fewer) per fortnight going forward. Maybe my local will sell one pint less than it would have done before (or maybe Mrs Yellowalf will have to start drinking medium glasses of wine instead of large ones - yes, that's the best sacrifice for me to make); and the cost of one pint will give me nearly enough for the increase plus a golden goal ticket! Have you seen the price of a packet of crisps in the pub these days? £1 per packet! For crisps!!!. But I still buy 'em. Maybe I'll spend less on my lunch or make my own a few days a week. Maybe I'll drive slightly slower and save money on petrol. Maybe I'll start buying second-hand books from charity shops rather than brand-new ones online. We'll all have something that we buy that, if we insisted on making St Albans City FC a priority for our disposable income, we would be happy to make a £3 saving on. The problem is that, immediately after this announcement, we're not making St Albans City FC a priority for our cash; instead we're trying to think of reasons why we won't go to games as often. But I enjoy going to watch St Albans City FC - why would I want to go less often? A 25% increase is a crazily high price rise but £15 for spending a couple of hours in the fresh air (or torrential rain) watching a football team I have an emotional bond to is cheap to me. They are essentially the same things but, from a different angle, one appears much more preferable than the other. If the club had increased gate prices by 60p per season would it be as much of an issue? We'd still be at £18 now but the increase would not have been such a shock. ScottishSaint is correct to say that the owners cash injections are a loan rather than an investment - actually a loan from Hertfordshire Sports Holdings Ltd whose two shareholders are Lawrence Levy and John McGowan. HSH hold as good as 630,00 shares in SAFC. The latest accounts for the football club to June 2018 can be found here: beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/01922742/filing-history/MzIzMDcyNzcxMGFkaXF6a2N4/document?format=pdf&download=0As you can see from them, the club made a loss of about £142k in the year up to last June. The club has lost £414,253 over the past five years. Whether it is an investment or a loan the chances of any return are pretty slim: if the owners do decide to leave, who is going to pay them £630k for their shares, or another £420k for the losses they have covered over the past five years? So you can boycott any games you want to, I'll happily be crossing the picket line and paying my £18 to get to see some football. Partly because I cannot see anything positive about the economics of running St Albans City FC on less than £18 and partly because I want to watch football and I can afford £18. If you would rather stand outside Clarence Park than stand inside Clarence Park on a match day, then go for it. Get as indignant as you want to, it's your right, but ask yourself if you really think that the club can cover the losses by asking fans to come together and discuss alternative revenue-streams? On a connected issue, I still think that a new stadium would increase match-day (and non-matchday) income and would therefore reduce the need to increase cost of admission. Instead of cutting your nose off to spite your face and boycotting home games, why not lobby the local council to be more proactive in finding a suitable site for a new football ground. It would be win-win for everyone then and you wouldn't be stood on the pavement of Clarence Road listing to the sounds of the terraces. Right, I'm gong back to lurking for another next three years.
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albanian
Saints Reserve Team Player
Posts: 372
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Post by albanian on Jun 27, 2019 13:03:09 GMT
Hi Alf, You make some good points. I do understand the predicament the owners are in and we obviously need to find a way to make the club more sustainable in the long term. I just don't happen to think that such a significant price increase is the way forward. It may be "only" a 20% increase over 5 years, but it's also an 80% increase over 7 years. If attendances are the same as last year then this price increase would result in approximately £20k of additional revenue. Not an insubstantial amount, but a very long way from filling the budget deficit. In this way we're very much in agreement that a new stadium is the best way for the club to be sustainable at this level. In reality it's hard to see how the price increase won't have a significant affect on attendances. Yes most people may swallow it, but crowds only need to be 100 lower for the increase to result in no additional revenue. All whilst pissing a lot of people off. I think the owners are being complacent, due to the lack of serious opposition last time prices were increased. But this ignores the different set of circumstances. We were riding the high of promotion so there was a lot of goodwill, plus we were paying for a higher standard of football. There's also the cumulative affect of the last three price increases. People were pushed close to the edge last time and for some of us this is one increase too far. It's not about being able to afford it or not, it's about a sense of what a fair price is for Conference South football. but ask yourself if you really think that the club can cover the losses by asking fans to come together and discuss alternative revenue-streams? You may dismiss this, but I do think more can be done to raise funds through both commercial and non-commercial avenues. SBYS and the trust have tried to engage with the owners to look at alternatives, but have not been listened to. I'd happily pay twice the price difference to Boost the Budget each month if it meant prices stayed the same. As you can see from them, the club made a loss of about £142k in the year up to last June. I'd be interested to see the Income Statement as well. It's hard to comment too much on these losses without understanding what the main drivers are. Are design/planning costs for the new stadium development expensed against the club? Instead of cutting your nose off to spite your face and boycotting home games, why not lobby the local council to be more proactive in finding a suitable site for a new football ground. I was there last year outside the council doing just that. It's possible to back the need for a new ground whilst also opposing the increase to £18.
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psmith
Saints Trialist
Posts: 2
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Post by psmith on Jun 27, 2019 13:19:47 GMT
I'm a relatively new fan and season ticket holder having moved to the area a few years ago. I accept the opposition to the £18 matchday price but I also agree with Yellowalf - the club loses a hell of a lot of money and matchday revenue, as well as a bit of sponsorship, is really the only serious income.
Also, it seems unfair not to mention that advance tickets are available for £15.50 if bought in advance with a membership (one-off fee of £25). The club is being quite pioneering with this - one day all shops and events will be cashless. There is an argument to be made about people without access to smartphones, but 78% of adults in the UK now use one (higher in the south-east and probably even higher among football fans).
£18 is too high (especially for away fans), but in fairness that's not the amount most people will pay. Instead of running stories about a protest movement, the local paper might be a good place to advertise the membership scheme?
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Post by saintsdad on Jun 27, 2019 13:42:53 GMT
In response, ahad43 pointed out the following:
So tickets aren't available for £15.50 in reality.
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albanian
Saints Reserve Team Player
Posts: 372
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Post by albanian on Jun 27, 2019 14:04:09 GMT
Yes as saintsdad and ahad43 have pointed out, it works out more expensive to buy tickets online as a member, so it's difficult to understand what the point of the membership scheme is. The cheapest option (other than a season ticket) is to buy tickets in advance online for £16.50. If I'm honest my biggest objection with this whole situation is the additional £1.50 that people have to pay if they don't/can't buy tickets in advance. The turnstiles are run by volunteers, so there's no cost saving for the club. As far as I can see it's a cynical ploy to extract a bit more money out of the casual match goer and the less tech-savvy (which will be overwhelmingly skewed towards the elderly and less well off), which are the last people that should be paying extra.
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Post by casper on Jun 27, 2019 16:29:43 GMT
Also, it seems unfair not to mention that advance tickets are available for £15.50 if bought in advance with a membership (one-off fee of £25). The membership scheme is £25 per season, not a one-off fee.
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Boycott
Jun 27, 2019 16:40:51 GMT
via mobile
Post by pitchsidesaint on Jun 27, 2019 16:40:51 GMT
Also, it seems unfair not to mention that advance tickets are available for £15.50 if bought in advance with a membership (one-off fee of £25). The membership scheme is £25 per season, not a one-off fee. It also applies to more than just league games.
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Boycott
Jun 28, 2019 6:12:42 GMT
via mobile
Post by scottishsaint on Jun 28, 2019 6:12:42 GMT
The membership scheme is £25 per season, not a one-off fee. It also applies to more than just league games. Last season we played 26 home games - 21 league games and 5 cup games. So if you went to every game but didn't buy a season ticket you're paying an extra 96p per match.
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Boycott
Jun 28, 2019 6:14:30 GMT
via mobile
Post by scottishsaint on Jun 28, 2019 6:14:30 GMT
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Boycott
Jun 28, 2019 6:37:24 GMT
via mobile
Post by pitchsidesaint on Jun 28, 2019 6:37:24 GMT
Liverpool made £150m profit in 2016/2017. And that's after paying out massive salaries and transfer fees. We make a loss. We could keep prices as they are and reduce the budget accordingly or put the prices up. I know some supporters would like us to reduce the budget but I'd prefer to do all we can to stay at this level so would live with an increase of £1.50. There is a third option of course which is for the owners to put in even more money - or even others to put in more money. But for me that's a very bad place go be and just makes a club ever more unsustainable (always interesting when those who kick off by sugar daddy's chucking in money also kick off about price increases that are done only to minimise losses)
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Boycott
Jun 28, 2019 6:48:01 GMT
via mobile
Post by scottishsaint on Jun 28, 2019 6:48:01 GMT
Liverpool made £150m profit in 2016/2017. And that's after paying out massive salaries and transfer fees. We make a loss. We could keep prices as they are and reduce the budget accordingly or put the prices up. I know some supporters would like us to reduce the budget but I'd prefer to do all we can to stay at this level so would live with an increase of £1.50. There is a third option of course which is for the owners to put in even more money - or even others to put in more money. But for me that's a very bad place go be and just makes a club ever more unsustainable (always interesting when those who kick off by sugar daddy's chucking in money also kick off about price increases that are done only to minimise losses) So they made £150 million profit after freezing their ticket prices? Interesting, maybe we could do the same, cheers for the info. Here's a question for you pitchsidesaint - what makes us, our set up and our owners so different from every other club in the division?
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Boycott
Jun 28, 2019 7:21:20 GMT
via mobile
Post by pitchsidesaint on Jun 28, 2019 7:21:20 GMT
Non-matchday income
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Boycott
Jun 28, 2019 7:26:17 GMT
via mobile
Post by saintsdad on Jun 28, 2019 7:26:17 GMT
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Boycott
Jun 28, 2019 7:29:11 GMT
via mobile
Post by scottishsaint on Jun 28, 2019 7:29:11 GMT
So we're the only club in the league, out of all 22 teams, who don't make non-matchday income, you reckon? Maybe it's time for that 4G pitch! Or maybe matchday income should be maximised as best it can, and that ain't by pricing fans out of going to games.
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Post by davymac55 on Jun 28, 2019 7:48:58 GMT
Interesting views being expressed here...however..if the club is running at such a loss each year is the money being well spent especially with the clear lack of success or progress? Raising the prices to cut the yearly deficit does not seem to be a route to success/promotion as my understanding is that there will be no increase in playing budget..of course an increased budget is no guarentee of success seeing as how current management has utilised budget..were we in league above £18 may have been acceptable but it is too much for the standard of football we watch regardless of inflation etc previous rise was 25% ..so 50% rise since HSH took over
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Boycott
Jun 28, 2019 7:49:02 GMT
via mobile
Post by stafans on Jun 28, 2019 7:49:02 GMT
So we're the only club in the league, out of all 22 teams, who don't make non-matchday income, you reckon? Maybe it's time for that 4G pitch! Or maybe matchday income should be maximised as best it can, and that ain't by pricing fans out of going to games. Time to find a new ground
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