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Post by saintsdad on Aug 2, 2019 8:10:12 GMT
Not sure I blame Trust board members or guys from SBYS etc. If Lawrence / Leigh / Absent John have consistently ignored advice from true supporters, and done their own thing their own way time after time, it must get very frustrating. One SBYS chap looked the perfect mixture of frustration and a little bit of boredom at the back of the room (by the bar). When Lawrence mentioned for the fourth or fifth time that the price rises are happening and everything will be reviewed at the end of the season I wanted to take the microphone and tell him that he'll probably need to review them in about a month's time. What a sad state of affairs.
Back the boycott.
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albanian
Saints Reserve Team Player
Posts: 372
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Post by albanian on Aug 2, 2019 8:11:47 GMT
Anyone who was able to go tonight care to share their thoughts? Or is it still going on?! What was the outcome then AHAD? Owners reconsidering the prices? Luckily enough I only pay £13 to get into Billericay maybe you should come along too? I don't think any of us were expecting last night to change anything, but it was good to have the opportunity to put our points across. For a successful businessman, it was surprising how little grasp Lawrence had of the numbers and the whole price increase seems worryingly badly thought out. There was a couple of times when Lawrence said words to the effect of: "I have absolutely no idea if it will work, but I hope it does". Not very reassuring. Olly - what are your thoughts on the price increase?
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Post by saintsdad on Aug 2, 2019 8:20:45 GMT
Apparently Lawrence and Absent John had to underwrite £100,000 to the league last season, and are underwriting £135,000 this season. A £35,000 increase, based on attendances staying the same as last season.
Then it turns out that at the start of last season they actually underwrote (?) £50,000 - then the league reviews the numbers every three months or so (Lawrence you've been here 8 or 9 years, but you're not sure how often the league check your own figures?) and we increased it a couple of times throughout the season.
None of what he said was re-assuring in the slightest. I've got a bad feeling about the whole thing - I can't believe Lawrence doesn't share that.
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Post by ahad43 on Aug 2, 2019 8:22:04 GMT
Oh dear oh dear oh dear
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Post by jj123 on Aug 2, 2019 8:23:07 GMT
Not sure I blame Trust board members or guys from SBYS etc. If Lawrence / Leigh / Absent John have consistently ignored advice from true supporters, and done their own thing their own way time after time, it must get very frustrating. One SBYS chap looked the perfect mixture of frustration and a little bit of boredom at the back of the room (by the bar). When Lawrence mentioned for the fourth or fifth time that the price rises are happening and everything will be reviewed at the end of the season I wanted to take the microphone and tell him that he'll probably need to review them in about a month's time. What a sad state of affairs. Back the boycott. Don't get me wrong i'm not blaming the trust or SBYS for the price rise. What i am saying is i found it staggering that not a single member of the trust stood up and represented the supporters last night SBYS members were on the microphone throughout but the trust were no where to be seen.
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Post by notsorecentconvert on Aug 2, 2019 8:27:43 GMT
I completely agree with the notion of discounting prices for loyalty. Season ticket holders should be able to watch their team for less than someone like me who pops along when some free time coincides with a match day.
The idea that pre-purchases up to about three hours before kick off should get a discount is all well and good but it penalises people who have busy lives, whose plans may change at short notice. If I counted all the Saints games I've been to over the last seven years and knocked off all the ones where I've suddenly found I'm able to go at 2.20pm or 7.15pm it would probably amount to half the matches. Maybe that's unusual, I don't know.
The thing is, knowing I'd be paying £1.50 more for just rocking up at 2.50pm is a big disincentive. It feels like a penalty for being busy and/or disorganised. And when you are trying to appeal to a city like St Albans, where there are loads of pretty wealthy people – many of whom probably support the big London clubs but never go – this strikes me as a daft policy. You want to make it as easy as possible for people to come. I've not even investigated where to find the online thing, for example, and the first game is tomorrow.
There is also a hidden cash benefit to gathering data from an app. For the £1.50 discount the club will know who their customers are. That's fine, it's how the world works – your data is worth almost as much as your cash – so it may not be that it's a cuddly benevolent gesture to offer the discount.
Again, though, I have no issue if the club wanted to build a database of supporters based on attendance and interest in order to demonstrate to the council that a new ground has legs. But if that's the case do it in an open, transparent way – tell people what you're doing and why and they'll go with you.
Whack the prices up so they're the highest in the division – on a par with some League 2 clubs – roll out a half-arsed discount scheme and then say, "Perhaps we got the announcement wrong," and I'm afraid for this semi-regular Saint it's all a bit of a turn-off.
In the meantime, of course, if the team win six of the first ten and are looking good for the play-offs, the prices might not matter so much.
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Post by saintsdad on Aug 2, 2019 8:38:30 GMT
I've not even investigated where to find the online thing, for example, and the first game is tomorrow. As if to add to the ridiculousness of it all, despite wanting to go cashless and contactless and online and so on Lawrence said last night the wi-fi wasn't fully operational yet so it might not matter tomorrow! Lawrence openly admitted last night that part of the reason for the membership was to harvest people's data and information and interests etc which can then be used for advertising and marketing etc further down the line. I have an issue with that - use the data with the council, fine, but for advertising / marketing etc? Not for me. For someone who apparently didn't go last night, your comments are bang on
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Post by notsorecentconvert on Aug 2, 2019 8:55:54 GMT
Fair play if Levy was up front about why they want to gather data. It's more than most companies admit freely. I mean, your TV set-top box, your Netflix account, your broadband provider, your phone, every social media site, pretty much everything is gathering your data for those exact purposes so it would be kind of odd for a football club, which relies on sponsorship and advertising, not to want to know who its customers are and what they are interested in.
As I've said, I do sympathise with the funding issue when the club has so few ways to generate money. We'd all be complaining if they ran the playing budget according to the income and got relegated as a result. £18 for National League South football is one thing, the way they've gone about it is another, the ham-fisted attempts to demonstrate value through the various discounting schemes are another. I suppose it depends what they really want - to grow a thriving community of returning fans who bring their children and their friends, or more money. The way they've gone about it suggests it'll be tricky to do both.
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Post by casper on Aug 2, 2019 9:06:11 GMT
The club need to be careful if they are collecting information on supporters, based upon scanning electronic tickets, to ensure they are not in beach of GDPR legislation.
It depends on what is in the terms and conditions when you buy a ticket or sign up for a season ticket.
Sharing information with third parties would be a breach of GDPR unless it's explicitly stated in the terms and conditions.
GDPR is General Data Protection Regulations which is legislation covering the processing and storing of personal information.
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Post by COYS on Aug 2, 2019 10:22:28 GMT
Disappointed by last night. My view has been that I couldn’t really argue with Lawrence’s points around rising costs of running the club and that there was only so long they could go on subsidising it. I don’t think anyone was arguing with that.
But I was expecting him to present some well thought out arguments as to why he thought the price rise was the best way to help close this deficit. Naively I thought they’d have done some kind of number crunching / research which forecasted the potential effects and risks of the decision.
Honestly I would have been able to stomach it if he’d said “we expect this decision to cost us x amount of supporters on a march day but this will be more than offset by the extra £1.50/£3 pp”. Wouldn’t have been happy but at least it would have explained it as a business decision.
But there was none of that. No reasoning or logic, just a repetition of the “Hope” he had that crowds wouldn’t be affected. What on earth is that based on? Such a huge risk to take especially when it had the certain effect of alienating so many regulars.
Can’t argue with his desire to reduce the subsidy he has to give the club every year - but nothing I heard last night suggested this was going to do anything other than increase it. And we will all suffer from that.
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Post by saintsdad on Aug 2, 2019 10:25:31 GMT
Lawrence said last night that one club had sold 2000 season tickets at £99 a go, and that their method is 'sweating' the fans of their assets / cash once they are inside the ground. He was later asked why we couldn't use that approach, or more specifically what that club were able to do inside the ground on matchday that we weren't, but he was unable to answer.
It was also interesting that Ian said we train twice a week on a 4G pitch, and the only time we train on grass is during pre-season. Lends more weight to the idea of investigating installing a 4G pitch in my opinion
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Post by saintsdad on Aug 2, 2019 10:55:43 GMT
The club need to be careful if they are collecting information on supporters, based upon scanning electronic tickets, to ensure they are not in beach of GDPR legislation. It depends on what is in the terms and conditions when you buy a ticket or sign up for a season ticket. Sharing information with third parties would be a breach of GDPR unless it's explicitly stated in the terms and conditions. GDPR is General Data Protection Regulations which is legislation covering the processing and storing of personal information. Shame the club haven't publicised that or made that clear (for example in one of the 742 tweets about the Chippenham game and buying tickets in advance etc)
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Post by citycentresaint on Aug 2, 2019 11:47:15 GMT
Should raise additional income having a 4G pitch. It would be well used and help more people take an interest in the club.
I predict for the 2020/2021 season, ticket prices will be £20.
I don't see us going up. So £20 to watch mid table Division 6 football.
If you can find me more expensive football for such a low quality standard anywhere in the world, I will be shocked.
Back the boycott.
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Post by citycentresaint on Aug 2, 2019 11:47:35 GMT
Should raise additional income having a 4G pitch. It would be well used and help more people take an interest in the club.
I predict for the 2020/2021 season, ticket prices will be £20.
I don't see us going up. So £20 to watch mid table Division 6 football.
If you can find me more expensive football for such a low quality standard anywhere in the world, I will be shocked.
Back the boycott.
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Post by casper on Aug 2, 2019 12:30:52 GMT
The club need to be careful if they are collecting information on supporters, based upon scanning electronic tickets, to ensure they are not in beach of GDPR legislation. It depends on what is in the terms and conditions when you buy a ticket or sign up for a season ticket. Sharing information with third parties would be a breach of GDPR unless it's explicitly stated in the terms and conditions. GDPR is General Data Protection Regulations which is legislation covering the processing and storing of personal information. Shame the club haven't publicised that or made that clear (for example in one of the 742 tweets about the Chippenham game and buying tickets in advance etc) This is the privacy policy which you sign up to when buying a ticket/season ticket. stalbanscityfc.ktckts.com/privacypolicyThis is from the privacy policy: "Accessing your personal information: You have the right to see a copy of the information that we hold about you. Please contact dpo@cafc.co.uk, you will be required to complete a subject access request form and the club will endeavour to fulfil this request for you in a reasonable, timely manner." The domain cafc.co.uk belongs to Charlton Athletic so email them if you have any issues about your personal data! Can't believe this has been allowed to be published without being checked.
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Post by pitchsidesaint on Aug 2, 2019 12:40:48 GMT
Should raise additional income having a 4G pitch. It would be well used and help more people take an interest in the club. I predict for the 2020/2021 season, ticket prices will be £20. I don't see us going up. So £20 to watch mid table Division 6 football. If you can find me more expensive football for such a low quality standard anywhere in the world, I will be shocked. Back the boycott. So who will stump up the few hundred thousand for a decent 4g pitch? And no need to start making baseless assumptions on future prices. I love the fact also that some think the quality is so poor... I'd counter that by arguing that football at this level can be better entertainment than that which I've seen at EFL2 and NLP. This level has some quality players and games are far more often not a given in terms of results. If however its so poor then slash the budget and drop a few leagues to make sure we really do watch poorer quality football. Turn my back on and boycott a team I support - never
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Post by saintjames1 on Aug 2, 2019 13:04:48 GMT
Absolutely no point in installing a 3G pitch at Clarence Park, the facilities are poor and it would take at least 5 years to pay the cost back.
In regards to ticket prices I don't agree with the price increase however the proof will be in the pudding especially when the schools go back in September.....
Surely the sensible thing from the start would of been to try and sell 500 season tickets at £125 for example?
A winning start will probably make a difference though!
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Post by saintsdad on Aug 2, 2019 13:39:35 GMT
Should raise additional income having a 4G pitch. It would be well used and help more people take an interest in the club. I predict for the 2020/2021 season, ticket prices will be £20. I don't see us going up. So £20 to watch mid table Division 6 football. If you can find me more expensive football for such a low quality standard anywhere in the world, I will be shocked. Back the boycott. So who will stump up the few hundred thousand for a decent 4g pitch? And no need to start making baseless assumptions on future prices. I love the fact also that some think the quality is so poor... I'd counter that by arguing that football at this level can be better entertainment than that which I've seen at EFL2 and NLP. This level has some quality players and games are far more often not a given in terms of results. If however its so poor then slash the budget and drop a few leagues to make sure we really do watch poorer quality football. Turn my back on and boycott a team I support - never Well aren't you a True Saints fan and better than the rest of us... Interestingly Lawrence mentioned how progressive he and the club are and how we want to move forward and win promotion etc - must be hard for you to hear given your preference to stay at this level and this level only.
If tickets are going up 9% per year on average (over the last seven seasons) then next season (20/21) they will be £17.99 / £19.62. No baseless assumptions there.
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Post by notsorecentconvert on Aug 2, 2019 13:45:18 GMT
Is it not the case that the club can't install a 3G or 4G pitch because they don't own Clarence Park?
As for purchasing in advance online, I did have a look at the system but it requires registering, giving card details, remembering the password. Too many steps in an age where you can tap-and-go with Apple Pay. I will guess that very, very few people will bother. If buying online meant a discount at any time, that might be an incentive, but having to do it three hours before kick-off? Oh forget it!
The number of Tweets they are pumping out is already getting irritating. I'm close to muting certain words or unfollowing.
Digital marketing is a pretty sophisticated thing these days – just hammering Twitter with the same message over and over doesn't really cut it.
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Post by pitchsidesaint on Aug 2, 2019 13:45:53 GMT
Surely the sensible thing from the start would of been to try and sell 500 season tickets at £125 for example? If this really worked then - absolutely - more clubs would do it. However, like Havant, you need the large bar area, multiple food outlets etc to maximise revenue once fans are at the game ie they end up paying more. That's exactly what Doswell did at Sutton. However, we don't have that luxury and many fans choose to utilise the great pubs in the city centre rather than the clubhouse. The underlying problem is that money from the top level of English football does not filter down - which subsidises admission prices in the leagues but ultimately makes it more difficult for non league football to compete on price alone.
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albanian
Saints Reserve Team Player
Posts: 372
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Post by albanian on Aug 2, 2019 13:49:41 GMT
So who will stump up the few hundred thousand for a decent 4g pitch? And no need to start making baseless assumptions on future prices. I love the fact also that some think the quality is so poor... I'd counter that by arguing that football at this level can be better entertainment than that which I've seen at EFL2 and NLP. This level has some quality players and games are far more often not a given in terms of results. If however its so poor then slash the budget and drop a few leagues to make sure we really do watch poorer quality football. Turn my back on and boycott a team I support - never You're very much mistaken if you think we're turning our back on the team. Not going will be painful, but it's because we do care that we're doing this. The club is much bigger than the current owners or the 11 paid individuals who will line up against Chippenham Town tomorrow. It's important to keep that in mind. I've got a lot of sympathy with the owners over the budget deficit, but they need to come up with more creative ways to increase revenue. At best this price increase will raise another £10k in ticket sales (in likelihood much less), which really doesn't make the club materially more sustainable. So much more could be done to improve the match day experience at Clarence Park. You only have to look at Dulwich to see what can be achieved if you improve the non-football side of things. I know it's difficult with Clarence Park, but there's no reason we couldn't drastically improve the food and drink on offer, as well as do some long overdue work on the toilets. Any work to the clubhouse and toilets would cost money, but when you're already ploughing in £100k a year surely it's worth consideration if it helps increase crowds longer term? It also seems like the fundraising side of things has been neglected. Myself and many other long time supporters would be willing to put a lot more in to the club than £18 a game (through fundraising events, sponsorships, budget contributions), but there doesn't seem to be any effort to utilize that potential. Lawrence talked about "sweating assets" last night, but admitted that no effort is being made to make the most of what we've got, with the clubhouse being completely unused over the summer.
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Post by saintsdad on Aug 2, 2019 13:50:12 GMT
Absolutely no point in installing a 3G pitch at Clarence Park, the facilities are poor and it would take at least 5 years to pay the cost back. What's five years in non-league terms? It also might help us on the pitch if we are training on is the same surface we will be playing on for the majority of our games, rather than training on one surface and playing on another.
And anyway, the facilities are what Ian said persuaded Iaciofano to sign for us over a couple of other clubs so they shouldn't be knocked too much
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Post by saintsdad on Aug 2, 2019 13:51:36 GMT
Yes men gonna yes, even if 99% of the rest of us say no
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Post by notsorecentconvert on Aug 2, 2019 13:59:00 GMT
I don't think there's any lack of sympathy for the situation but are there any clubs at this level that do things that could be copied or adapted?
Albanian, you mention Dulwich but what do they do that works? I think of them as a hipster's club, almost. I know several people who live in London who go because it's a cool thing to do and because they can't get tickets for their Premier League clubs. They choose Dulwich over going to, say, Millwall or Charlton or QPR even.
Perhaps it's the pink and purple kit!
Which makes me think... I must confess, there's a few things that puzzle me about the club... We've played in virtually the same kit for about six years now. Plain yellow with boring blue trim. In the 25 years I've been going to Saints (on and off) they've played in stripes, halves, blue sleeves, all sorts of different designs, but these days they are just stuck with a kit that is indistiguishable year-in, year-out.
Even Wealdstone have mixed it up a bit this year with a blue and amber-striped number!
If the kit was striking and a bit different each year, I'd probably buy one each season – if only to go running in!
It just seems like there are some obvious things that could be done that are just being left to drift along.
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Post by saintsdad on Aug 2, 2019 14:07:04 GMT
I don't think there's any lack of sympathy for the situation but are there any clubs at this level that do things that could be copied or adapted? No, no, no. Don't be ridiculous. We are unique - the only club in this league with no non-matchday revenue, the only club in this league who had to pay £4,500 in referee / lino fees last season, the only club in this league who had to pay for coaches to Truro and Weston-Super-Mare last season, the only club in this league where the owners aren't sugar daddies but instead need to put ticket prices up 10% to 20% to attempt to gain revenue (and sell fans' data), the only club in this league who have to pay more for players because they all have agents these days...
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Post by notsorecentconvert on Aug 2, 2019 14:15:04 GMT
That's kind of my point, Saintsdad – we're not in a unique position, are we? But what do other clubs do?
I remember in about 95 or 96 a full Arsenal first team played a pre-season friendly at Clarence Park and the place was absolutely rammed. That doesn't really happen anymore. Even lower division league clubs sometimes send an XI. So there's a good source of revenue that has dwindled away.
But surely there's something the club could do to attract casual but serious fans who could really make a difference. Luton are playing tonight – is there ever any effort to attract their fans who want to watch a game on a Saturday when Luton aren't playing or are away? The same could be said of Watford and a whole host of London clubs.
I don't know, might be pie-in-the-sky but a campaign along the lines of 'Make the Saints Your Second Team' could attract people. After all, if you could attract 500 people to attend one game a season that's almost the equivalent of another home game (without any of the costs).
Of course, if you're telling people it's going to cost them 18 sheets for their one-off game it's probably not going to work.
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Post by saintjames1 on Aug 2, 2019 14:24:45 GMT
Absolutely no point in installing a 3G pitch at Clarence Park, the facilities are poor and it would take at least 5 years to pay the cost back. What's five years in non-league terms? It also might help us on the pitch if we are training on is the same surface we will be playing on for the majority of our games, rather than training on one surface and playing on another.
And anyway, the facilities are what Ian said persuaded Iaciofano to sign for us over a couple of other clubs so they shouldn't be knocked too much
You need Café facilities at 3G pitches to generate decent income along with regular weekly bookings, oh, and probably another set of changing rooms. Add parking facilities to that too..... Do you really think players move to clubs because of there facilities??
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Post by saintsdad on Aug 2, 2019 14:35:14 GMT
Just repeating what Ian said last night. We have a clubhouse - do up the kitchen and turn it into a cafe. We have Watford playing 15 times a season (they must like the facilities too) - offer it out to companies for corporate stuff, offer it out to schools, the university, etc etc. The parking facilities will be the same as any other matchday.
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albanian
Saints Reserve Team Player
Posts: 372
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Post by albanian on Aug 2, 2019 14:36:50 GMT
Albanian, you mention Dulwich but what do they do that works? I went last season, but they were still ground sharing at Tooting, so not sure what the setup is like now they're back at Champion Hill. They had a number of street food stalls selling good quality food (including Thai and Jerk Chicken), plus a real ale bar. Think they're pretty big on their craft beer, so I'd imagine it's a bit like going to one of those street food destinations. This combined with cheap season ticket prices (£150) and a progressive/inclusive outlook makes it a cool place to see football and be seen. I'm not suggesting we can do all these things, but there's certainly plenty there to be inspired by. St Albans is an affluent place, so there's no shortage of people willing to pay a small fortune for good food and drink.
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jeffry
Saints Trialist
Posts: 30
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Post by jeffry on Aug 2, 2019 15:14:00 GMT
Looking forward to non league day also when those who can afford season tickets for Spurs, Arsenal wave it at the turnstile and get in for free where the rest of us will get a £1 discount off the £18.
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