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Post by Boomer on Mar 16, 2015 16:00:19 GMT
Having also been at the meeting, I'd summarise as follows: - they look down upon the game of football (we come bottom of their heap - tennis being their preferred sport, football being the sport of the oi polloi...) - they have no understanding of the importance of active sports to local young people - they include land and property lawyers who have sufficient resources and capability to fight attempts to remove the restrictive covenants - they do not invite the club to meetings but the club tries to attend - but then they are simply criticised - they do not want any further commercialisation of the football club (and would rather it was not there) as it already spoils the tranquil nature of Clarence Park... - they did not want the council to spend money on changing the deeds /licence (changes that were required for acceptance by the Conference South ie we would be thrown out of the league) as there are greater priorities (ramp etc) - they do not want the club to do anything extra to generate revenue There are other things that might be best left off this site (given they are lawyers!) but I'm happy to share in a conversation at any time! Thanks for that, AppySaint. I find it interesting that the PCP are looking for a completely new ramp/steps to the Hatfield Road entrance to Clarence Park (if I am reading the situation correctly) and would like to make the following observations. 1. Prior to this ramp/steps being installed in 2003, there was a perfectly adequate entrance from Hatfield Road, into Clarence Park opposite Granville Road. It was on level ground (leading on to the perimeter pathway in the Park), with absolutely no necessity for a ramps/steps. It may possibly have required some refurbishment and upgrading but the cost would have been minimal in comparison. You have to pose the question why the ramp/steps were installed in the first place. Was it such a hardship to walk a further 50 yards down Hatfield Road to the original entrance? 2. In addition to the original structure, further remedial works were also carried out the ramp/steps in 2012. 3. Perhaps, if the PCP are so concerned about installing a new ramp/steps, maybe they should also consider paying for it themselves, instead of putting the onus on to the Council, especially as they don't appear to be the least bit concerned about the welfare of any of the various sporting organisations, whose facilities are located within the Park. £80,000 is a ridiculous amount to put on to the Council budget in order to satisfy the whims of the few. The other alternative for them, of course, would be to do away with the ramp/steps entrance permanently and reintroduce the entrance opposite Granville Road at, probably, a tenth of the cost. 4. The PCP needs to remember that when Clarence Park was given over by Sir John Blundell Maple, it was given to whole of the people of St. Albans and not just those, who reside in Clarence Road and York Road. If he was alive today, I suspect Sir John would be none too happy with the current activities and manoeuvering of the PCP. 5. In December 2007, Sport England published a survey, which revealed that residents of St. Albans were the 10th most active in England in sports and other fitness activities. I may be wrong but I am guessing that not too many of those residents lived in Clarence Road and York Road.
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Post by PaperSaint on Mar 16, 2015 17:20:46 GMT
Latest petition signatures count is 727 - we got a big boost today from fans of Salisbury City FC. You can also support their petition at: www.change.org/p/wiltshire-council-and-the-trustees-of-the-raymond-mcenhill-trust-save-our-stadiumBoomer - they want a nice steel ramp but as you say access opposite Glanville Rd would have been / was ideal. As the CPC Twitter account posted: "No money for ramp/stairs yet St Albans council is paying lawyers for advice on rewriting trust deed that has protected CP for 120 yrs" (this will be a dig at the football club - as I understand the deed needed various minor changes to allow the football club to continue to be run without either problems with Conf South or problems triggered by PCP!) I did like the following tweet from their account: "Finance officer suggested ramp/stairs could be funded by council tax precept on residents in central St A wards. Shocking lack of planning"
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Post by PaperSaint on Mar 16, 2015 17:23:29 GMT
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Post by Hatboy on Mar 16, 2015 18:53:09 GMT
From PCP! Twitter account - this sums it up very well : What's your vision for the future of Clarence Park? This pic.twitter.com/HK0LMhggnEWhat a park empty of people enjoying it or kids playing ?
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Post by Hatboy on Mar 16, 2015 18:59:30 GMT
4. The PCP needs to remember that when Clarence Park was given over by Sir John Blundell Maple, it was given to whole of the people of St. Albans and not just those, who reside in Clarence and York Road. Some of us have actually lived here all our lives and not just moved here because we're rich, what right do these people have to dictate to everyone what should happen
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Post by PaperSaint on Mar 16, 2015 19:31:56 GMT
The 'leader' of PCP! apparently "takes those opportunities family life affords to savour the delights of the English country pub and the cultural landscape of Europe". He should have come along to Whitehawk and enjoyed the cultural landscape that their stadium afforded to us all!
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Post by minty on Mar 19, 2015 23:53:59 GMT
I have been watching this with interest from afar but has there been any update/input on the Save Our Saints campaign from the owners since they launched it a month ago or has it all been the work of supporters so far?
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Post by PaperSaint on Mar 20, 2015 7:07:16 GMT
The owners are available to be questioned and to attend our meetings - it is key to the campaign that it is supporter led in my opinion. The one thing I would have liked to have to been done differently is the launch - I would have preferred to have seen supporters being part of it
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Post by citycentresaint on Mar 21, 2015 0:32:22 GMT
PCP are lowlife.
Their one concern is to protect the value of their homes.
Need to target them and not let them stand in the way of the club surviving.
COYS
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euclid
Saints Reserve Team Player
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Post by euclid on Mar 22, 2015 11:43:05 GMT
Anyone know whether the owners have met anyone from the Council in the last week or two?
As for the PCP, the best way to deal with them is to talk reasonably to them, not call them lowlife !! That won't get us anywhere.
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Post by jj123 on Mar 25, 2015 9:17:04 GMT
Any update on this?
I don't want to sound neative but it feels like LL is trying to get the supporters on board, but what real impact can they have?
Also, im not sure if this has been answered but what are we actually trying to 'Save the Saints' from?
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Post by PaperSaint on Mar 25, 2015 9:58:24 GMT
Why wouldn't an owner not want to get supporters on board? I'd be very worried if he wasn't! There will be an article in the Herts Ad this week talking about how supporters are leading the Save Our Saints campaign. The following link sets out why we feel it's time for action: www.saveoursaints.com/save-our-saints-time-for-action/
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Post by jj123 on Mar 25, 2015 10:47:02 GMT
Realistically what can the supporters group do apart from hand out posters / flyers?
When our application to move stadium / re-build Clarence Park is rejected and the owners decide to leave - do we seriously think we will go out of busiess / into administration and be relegated several divisions? or will a new owner come in - im pretty sure the owners can't just up and leave one day when they fancy ?
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Post by PaperSaint on Mar 25, 2015 10:55:44 GMT
There's actually much more than that - as supporters we can get volunteers to assist (as several have done already to help do up the toilet blocks), raise funds for specific projects (some supporters are already organising events to raise funds), promote the work of the club etc. Seems to me very pessimistic to simply suggest that any application to do anything to get a ground that brings in revenue will be rejected. Myself and many other supporters are willing to make sure there is a future for this club - and already have a strong core who are ready to go beyond the talk and start taking action rather than sitting around and waiting for something to happen.
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Post by jj123 on Mar 25, 2015 11:07:14 GMT
I am completely behind the club - and want the very best for it - but how many previous chairman / owners have tried and failed to rebuild Clarence Park / move away?
I just think its a little drastic to assume that the club will go into free fall if the owners decide to leave.
I'm all for a new stadium though - similar to Burton Albion's / Nene Park / AFC Telfords / Smaller version of Northampton Towns please.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2015 11:10:09 GMT
sounds similar to the trusts aims etc
maybe we should be looking to get new investors / owners in especially if the current owners are thinking about walking away
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2015 11:11:16 GMT
also what do the st albans review make of the save our saints stuff ?
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Post by Saint on Mar 25, 2015 11:56:06 GMT
also what do the st albans review make of the save our saints stuff ? I get the impression that because the owners used the Herts Ad to announce it, the Review have decided to not cover it so far...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2015 12:12:55 GMT
funny they used the herts ad considering they dont always turn up to are games !
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Post by Boomer on Mar 25, 2015 12:20:02 GMT
The HA probably has a far larger circulation and readership.
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Post by PaperSaint on Mar 25, 2015 12:31:38 GMT
sounds similar to the trusts aims etc maybe we should be looking to get new investors / owners in especially if the current owners are thinking about walking away Why not address the cause of the problems owners face rather than staying on the merrygoround of different owners. What exactly would new owners be investing in?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2015 14:02:13 GMT
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Post by COYS on Mar 25, 2015 16:35:24 GMT
because these problems arent new ? maybe new owners could do a better job ! everyones so negative round here ! seriously though, how mayn expensive fancy lawyers does york road have, and cant we just get more in ? I'd say the fact these problems aren't new suggests a change of ownership will help no one. We're better off trying to solve these problems now, especially considering we have two owners that are immeasurably more co-operative than the last one.
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yellowalf
Saints Reserve Team Player
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Post by yellowalf on Mar 25, 2015 17:43:01 GMT
because these problems arent new ? maybe new owners could do a better job ! everyones so negative round here ! seriously though, how mayn expensive fancy lawyers does york road have, and cant we just get more in ? You might think we're being negative but I think everyone is realistic: the future is not rosy and bright. Go back to the start of this thread and read all six pages. All the reasons why we can't stay at CP are there in detail. I honestly doubt there's a single person in the country who will be able to develop Clarence Park for this football club in the face of the opposition from PCP and I don't seen anything to be gained by sitting back and waiting to see if that prediction turns out to be true or not. Hypothetically, think of a new stadium as planned, with other sports facilities for the community, housing etc: doesn't the future of the football club seem more positive in that scenario that staying at CP? The current owners are losing a lot of cash every year and they don't want to continue to do so. That other owners of other non-league clubs at our level are in the same boat is irrelevant. That any owner of a football club at this level should expect to be losing money is irrelevant. Unless we can get an alternative party interested in taking the club off the current owners and pump cash in to keep it running then we are, to a certain extent, at the mercy of the current owners if we want to continue watching Conference level football. But if you think differently then give us something to hang our hopes onto. Give us some facts and strategy by which we can beat PCP. Tell us how much money it will cost to "get more expensive fancy lawyers in" and who's going to foot the bill? Tell us the name(s) of some new owners who are happy to lose £100k per season or more. Just repeating that these problems aren't new, that new owners would do a better job and that we need to fight PCP to win isn't going to solve any problems at all. This thread explains why that is the case; I've said before that I don't think there's a single fan who wouldn't prefer to stay at CP than move to a new ground, so if you think that can be facilitated tell us how. We're not being negative, we've run out of answers.
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Post by citycentresaint on Mar 25, 2015 18:52:15 GMT
Should turn CP into a 3G pitch.
An income 7 days a week would stop us leaking money.
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Post by PaperSaint on Mar 25, 2015 20:35:34 GMT
We would still need to find £450k to do that. ..
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Post by Hatboy on Mar 25, 2015 21:37:47 GMT
Clarence Park has one of the best pitches in non league football it would be a travesty to change it to a 3G
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Post by Hatboy on Mar 26, 2015 18:40:25 GMT
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Post by Saint on Mar 29, 2015 12:33:14 GMT
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Post by casper on Mar 29, 2015 13:59:00 GMT
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