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Post by yorkroader on Nov 22, 2015 1:10:00 GMT
It is interesting that fans are discussing the performance of James Comley today. In my opinion his is far and away our best player and if the player of the season were voted for now he must win by a furlong. But is he good enough for this league at centre half ? I am not absolutely sure. Great on the ball,and he often makes eye-catching 'recoveries' ,but often seems to have been out of position in the first place. As others have alluded to,we seem to have a soft centre,and have done all season. Martin didn't have a good game today but he needs a 'rock' in midfield to shield himself and the other centre-back from opponents running at them.
Can't comment on the spitting allegation as I didn't notice anything untoward going on,but their centre half will not have an easier afternoon all season than the one he had today,every single long ball he headed back into our half unchallenged by Crawford,who ran about a lot to absolutely zero effect. I agree with Bloomer about Theophanous - why oh why did we spend a packet on probably the best striker in the league and then play him left wing ? And then make him track back all the time to cover in front of Chappell ,while playing a doughnut at centre forward ?
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Post by bob666 on Nov 22, 2015 3:00:18 GMT
I was not at the game today. What surprised me is not that we lost but that we let 4 in. If you discount the Grimsby game we looked Ok at the back since Whitehawk. I be interested to know if we were consistently bad throughout the game or if we collapsed after they scored? Defensively this season we been inconsistent but we been consistently awful as a attacking force. Even in the win against Wealdstone we created very few chances (1 if I recall correctly). As a supporter I must admit that when we go one nil down I tend towards defeatism because we are so limited as a attacking unit- could the players feel the same?
On a slightly separate issue, I not sure if I believe entirely myself but, if his wages were fairly modest was there a argument for keeping Simon Thomas? I not suggesting he was a world beater but his qualities could be seen to suit a limited team like ourselves? He could compete for hoofballs, hold to up etc. I not saying you want him in the first 11 every week but for selected games/ and as a regular sub? A player well-suited to playing for (by conference south standards) a below average side?
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fatboy
Saints Youth Team Player
Posts: 200
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Post by fatboy on Nov 22, 2015 10:00:38 GMT
If everyone seems to think our players are good enough, which to be fair I also think, then maybe lets look at the coaching staff, I don't seem to see any players improving week on week, I do however see the same mistakes week after week. James and Graham are popular managers with the fans and owners and for good reason but maybe if they want to keep their jobs tough discussions with the coaching staff is needed.
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Post by yorkroader on Nov 22, 2015 10:03:27 GMT
Some very good points there bob666. Firstly the conditions yesterday were not conducive to a good game of football. The grass was a little bit long and there was a strong wind down the pitch which we decided to kick with in the first half. The first forty-five minutes were very poor from both sides,Crawford fired a decent chance wide from our only chance,Welsh made three saves one of which was very good. The biggest problem being that we could not hold the ball upfront when it went into the feet of Crawford,the rest of the time long passes just flew through to their keeper or for goal kicks.Second half they scored straight away and we folded. At two nil they were content to defend and they dropped back a full fifteen yards and gave us a lot more possession and were happy to play on the counter attack. Agree completely about Simon Thomas. I felt his second half appearance at Margate made the difference and he layed on the goal for Theophanous there. Yesterday we did not win a single aerial challenge in the front line.
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ebsacfc
Saints Reserve Team Player
Posts: 256
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Post by ebsacfc on Nov 22, 2015 10:50:15 GMT
I think James Comley is wasted at centre half but on the other hand I don't think we can play Martin alongside Locke as are both far too slow. A dip in to the transfer market for a centre half is probably needed.
I felt sorry for Crawford, he worked hard but he was completely isolated and was up against a centre half way taller than him. Having Theophanous playing on the left didn't help this.
If we continue to play this long ball crap we may as well have kept Thomas.
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Post by casper on Nov 22, 2015 13:28:38 GMT
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Post by Boomer on Nov 22, 2015 13:38:57 GMT
If everyone seems to think our players are good enough, which to be fair I also think, then maybe lets look at the coaching staff, I don't seem to see any players improving week on week, I do however see the same mistakes week after week. James and Graham are popular managers with the fans and owners and for good reason but maybe if they want to keep their jobs tough discussions with the coaching staff is needed. I'm not too sure all of our players are good enough. Two certainly aren't and, for me, there is a big question mark against two others. We have never adequately replaced Ram Marwa in the holding role and that is a huge problem. You make a very good point about the coaching staff. Why on earth do we need three coaches at this level.
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Post by Boomer on Nov 22, 2015 13:43:06 GMT
The latter part of the 8th para of that report worries the life out of me.
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Post by PaperSaint on Nov 22, 2015 14:42:21 GMT
That was the stand out sentence for me in that report - I winced when I read that.
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Post by casper on Nov 22, 2015 17:02:46 GMT
'Lowlights' of yesterdays game
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Post by PaperSaint on Nov 22, 2015 18:31:17 GMT
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Post by notsorecentconvert on Nov 22, 2015 19:13:07 GMT
Boomer, I wasn't having a pop at you, by the way. I was simply saying that describing a player who has been part of a defence that's let in four goals as outstanding is a new one on me. Perhaps I should have said that describing anyone who's been part of a team beaten 4-1 by relegation battlers as outstanding is a new one. I don't dispute that the fans who voted nominated Comley as man of the match but that's a bit different to being outstanding.
Anyway, your subsequent comment about defending from the front and (perhaps) missing Comley in the middle is interesting because it kind of confirms what I was wondering. Do we miss him in midfield more than we gain from having him at the back?
Boomer, I'd also be interested to know who you think are the two who are not up to it, and the two who are borderline. I wonder if they chime with my own thoughts.
As for Theo playing wide rather than through the middle, he did the same against Wealdstone and for much of the game he was an observer. I did wonder if he's struggling with a knock because he seemed to wince or pull up a bit short every now and then. Either way, when I saw him for Staines, he was lethal playing through the middle. He has pace and a good touch and a great eye for goal. As someone else said, his ratio of goals to chances must be very high. But he's not going to get many chances coming in from the left.
No two ways about it, we are in a relegation scrap now. If we're not careful, we'll be in the bottom three at Christmas and it doesn't take a genius to work out that the longer we're in this position the harder it will be to get out of it.
Let's hope for a big improvement against Gosport.
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barker
Saints Youth Team Player
Posts: 135
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Post by barker on Nov 23, 2015 13:44:12 GMT
Yep, we are well and truly in a relegation scrap. The last time we went down with Steve Castle we had a lot of off field instability and the points deduction. Whereas this season we seem to be spiralling down from a quite stable position of building support through slowly increasing crowds and owners that have put a lot of effort and money into the club. Very worrying - didn't see this coming back in August.
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Post by PaperSaint on Nov 23, 2015 14:32:10 GMT
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Post by casper on Nov 23, 2015 14:47:26 GMT
Interview is not working due to 'Plugin not supported' message.
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nat038
Saints Trialist
Posts: 42
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Post by nat038 on Nov 23, 2015 21:12:48 GMT
Yep, we are well and truly in a relegation scrap. The last time we went down with Steve Castle we had a lot of off field instability and the points deduction. Whereas this season we seem to be spiralling down from a quite stable position of building support through slowly increasing crowds and owners that have put a lot of effort and money into the club. Very worrying - didn't see this coming back in August. All very predictable when you have an incompetent manager. A team always reflects its management.
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Post by PaperSaint on Nov 23, 2015 21:51:16 GMT
Interview is not working due to 'Plugin not supported' message. Apologies as am out of the country and quickly posted this from my phone. Have added direct link as well that you can just click on to access the interview
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fatboy
Saints Youth Team Player
Posts: 200
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Post by fatboy on Nov 23, 2015 22:26:34 GMT
A little harsh that Nat038. Which Manager was you on about as we do have 2,
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porkypig
Saints Youth Team Player
Posts: 245
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Post by porkypig on Nov 23, 2015 22:32:12 GMT
harsh but probably true
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Post by Boomer on Nov 23, 2015 23:19:51 GMT
Yep, we are well and truly in a relegation scrap. The last time we went down with Steve Castle we had a lot of off field instability and the points deduction. Whereas this season we seem to be spiralling down from a quite stable position of building support through slowly increasing crowds and owners that have put a lot of effort and money into the club. Very worrying - didn't see this coming back in August. All very predictable when you have an incompetent manager. A team always reflects its management. But not as predictable as your posts, Nathaniel.
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Post by Canary Saint on Nov 23, 2015 23:27:25 GMT
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Post by bob666 on Nov 24, 2015 0:34:46 GMT
G&G clearly over performed relative to budget during the first two and a half years of their tenure. So I think unfair to call them incompetent and I certainly think they deserve the opportunity to resolve the issues that we now face. That said I not overly impressed by how they gone about things this season. The levels of player turnover has been ridiculous. It almost seems like the policy sign loads of players and hope one works out. We shipped out players who in some cases, to me at least, look no worse than the ones we brought in. The combination of high player turnover and regular public criticism of the team seems opposite of what you need to create a siege mentality and internal coherence in a regulation fight. Sometimes in interviews Grey should just talk nonsense blame the pitch whatever draw attention away from the team - protect them. Look Ferguson the truth was subordinate to the interests of the team. This might sound over simplistic but if we are going to be long ball team (which I don't think we should) surely we need a big target man striker. I not saying Crawford is a bad player but he does not suit the direct style Grey/Gould seem to favour this season. There needs to be joined up thinking in terms of tactics and recruitment. In any case Grey consistent demands that player fight for it and earn the right to play seems a relatively unreflective response to our current problems. I actually think main problem is not a lack of fight but an inability to keep possession by playing simple short passes . If you constantly surrendering possession you will lose most games. To constantly privilege a willingness to earn it/fight (whatever that means) over tactical awareness, a capacity to simply keep the ball seems anachronistic. I have not been to every away game but seen all the home games and I think main problem is not that we being outfought but beaten by teams who actually look after the ball. The idea that 'bravery' in football always means throwing yourself in is rubbish, it can also mean having the courage to bring it down and play rather than just get rid of it.
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Post by EFMTFTV on Nov 24, 2015 16:13:31 GMT
I interpreted his post as referring to Steve Castle as being incompetent He was just adding to the list of other off field issues
Gibson, points deduction AND an incompetent manager
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Post by EFMTFTV on Nov 24, 2015 16:14:13 GMT
Although I may be wrong
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Post by yorkroader on Nov 24, 2015 17:13:35 GMT
bob666, how can you say "clearly over performed relative to budget" unless you know what our budget was and everyone else's ? Apologies if you do.
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Post by bob666 on Nov 24, 2015 17:56:41 GMT
bob666, how can you say "clearly over performed relative to budget" unless you know what our budget was and everyone else's ? Apologies if you do. Fair point. I was just going by what has been said both in fan forum at the club and on this website. I got the impression that most people thought we had about the 4th lowest budget in the league and about 5/6 highest in the southern. This could of course be completely wrong, in which case my argument does not stand.
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nat038
Saints Trialist
Posts: 42
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Post by nat038 on Nov 24, 2015 21:58:16 GMT
You are. When have you seen the 'other' manager quoted in the local newspapers or done an interview to camera? There is only one manager - James Gray. All of his public utterances give no indication of any coherent strategy or team pattern of play. What can you expect of an ex clogger centre half? He hasn't got a clue. On the other hand the other half of the management team has some management/coaching experience. Perhaps he ought to be given sole charge of the team... if he wants it.
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Post by notsorecentconvert on Nov 24, 2015 22:09:05 GMT
Bit harsh. Gray clearly had enough of a clue to win promotion and steer the team to a relatively comfortable position last year.
I also would have thought that Gray did the interviews and so on because he's more comfortable at it than Golds.
Anyway, if Golds is the answer why are the team in their current position? Is he sitting mute in the dressing room and standing impassively on the training ground doing nothing?
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yellowalf
Saints Reserve Team Player
Posts: 301
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Post by yellowalf on Nov 25, 2015 7:02:12 GMT
Exactly - there's no way ex clogger centre halves can ever be successful as managers. Sam Allardyce, Steve Bruce, Dean Smith, Sean Dyche, Tony Mowbray, Gary Caldwell, Mauricio Pochettino (okay, maybe he wasn't a clogger...), Martin Allen (not a centre-half but a clogger to balance Pochettino)...
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Post by Canary Saint on Nov 25, 2015 21:03:42 GMT
Will be interesting to see how Hitchin get on against WSM in the trophy (though I realise these kind of comparisons are not very reliable).
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