hoofit
Saints Youth Team Player
Posts: 190
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Post by hoofit on Mar 23, 2021 14:22:38 GMT
'Protect Clarence Park' have lobbied all of their members to object to the alcohol licence for the club.
If you wish to object, or support - the email is
licensing@stalbans.gov.uk Put St Albans City Football Club in the subject.
It needs to be done by 24th March - tomorrow (sorry!)
The only grounds permissible for objecting or supporting are listed...
"your comments must expressly relate to at least one of the four 'Licensing Objectives' which are:
The prevention of crime and disorder
Public safety
The prevention of public nuisance
The protection of children from harm"
I will be supporting - but make your own mind up.....
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Post by gazza2402 on Mar 24, 2021 7:49:27 GMT
Really for a bar that is open around 24 hours a month
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Post by minty on Mar 24, 2021 12:32:15 GMT
One of the Admins for the "Protect Clarence Park" Facebook page is a Spurs fan. Quite happy for a 60,000 seater stadium to be built in North London but dare anything happen on their front doorstep! Nimbyism of the highest degree!
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Post by westwalessaint on Mar 24, 2021 13:27:55 GMT
Totally agree with minty. Probably don’t even come from St Albans!
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boojiboy
Saints Reserve Team Player
Posts: 322
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Post by boojiboy on Mar 24, 2021 13:39:32 GMT
I am in their Facebook group and don’t know anything about this
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Post by Boomer on Mar 24, 2021 15:46:11 GMT
I was told that the St. Albans Cricket Club and St. Albans Bowls Club already have similar licences anyway. Perhaps someone can confirm.
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Post by minty on Mar 24, 2021 15:53:57 GMT
Totally agree with minty. Probably don’t even come from St Albans! You'd be correct. From the North of England I seem to remember.
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Post by minty on Mar 24, 2021 15:55:52 GMT
I am in their Facebook group and don’t know anything about this There doesn't seem to be anything on their Facebook group about it. They are probably discussing it in less public forums.
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Post by Hatboy on Mar 24, 2021 21:30:19 GMT
Totally agree with minty. Probably don’t even come from St Albans! You'd be correct. From the North of England I seem to remember. Bolton
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Post by EFMTFTV on Mar 24, 2021 23:24:56 GMT
They've always been a pain in the bottom Dunno why some supporters haven't starting bricking their windows
I remember when we had the Germans over for the first time and held a BBQ one of them standing outside their house with a decibel meter and older fans will remember the Brown-Quinns and their LA Law impression at the council offices when we were trying to get planning permission for the fence
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Post by davymac55 on Mar 25, 2021 19:46:59 GMT
NIMBY not the acronym Id use
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euclid
Saints Reserve Team Player
Posts: 456
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Post by euclid on Mar 26, 2021 18:20:57 GMT
Interesting idea from the Club wanting to open the 'bars' for longer hours. It's never been financially viable previously and hasn't this reason been cited as one of the reasons for moving to a new ground?
History suggests that the local NIMBYS (sorry 'residents') will have a field day with this, as they have always opposed anything the Club want to do.
If the Cricket & Bowls clubs have similar licences, were they opposed by the residents?
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Post by tacheofgoodyear on Apr 6, 2021 12:15:35 GMT
Interesting idea from the Club wanting to open the 'bars' for longer hours. It's never been financially viable previously and hasn't this reason been cited as one of the reasons for moving to a new ground? History suggests that the local NIMBYS (sorry 'residents') will have a field day with this, as they have always opposed anything the Club want to do. If the Cricket & Bowls clubs have similar licences, were they opposed by the residents? What is being applied for is not what the bowls and cricket club have. They have an unusual type of licence called a club premises certificate - Club Premises Certificate - similar information is available on SADC's website. This is what local football clubs have and when the public register on SADC's site actually works you can see that this is is what Harpenden, London Colney, Colney Heath etc. have. This type of licence applies to private clubs, which is why they work for sports clubs on match days or where the bars are members only (like the cricket club or bowls club). If one of those clubs wants to hold an event that is open to the public then typically they would apply for a temporary events notice which allows alcohol to be sold for a particular event (similar to a school doing a quiz night). It also means you don't need to have a designated premises supervisor present when the premises is operating to sell alcohol which you do need if you have a premises licence (which is what pubs have) and the DPS also requires a personal licence to sell alcohol. Applications for premises licences are far more onerous and both the police and the licencing authority have greater powers to enter / inspect / close down these premises because they are open to the public. The police also get to comment on premises licence applications from a public order perspective and if there are significant objections then a public licencing hearing may be required where the applicant can be questions by the licencing sub-committee and objections can be heard. The sub-committee then decides whether to grant the licence and if any conditions should be imposed on it. The club premises certificate is what City already has although there was of course a significant period (at least from July 2018) when it seems there was no licence for the sale of alcohol at all either from the club house or anywhere else in the ground. This is presumably why the sale of alcohol at the beam back of the FA cup game this year was stopped. If the public register on SADC's site can be accessed then it will show the gap when the club premises certificate was not in place. It is likely that the club premises certificate also only covered the sale of alcohol from the club house as that would be the licenced premises (consumption in the ground would be ok but licencing controls where alcohol is sold). This means that when alcohol was sold from the bottom of the club house steps for the FA Cup game against Carlisle or from the club shop / 3 Brewers bar it is likely that there was no licence for the sale of alcohol from those locations. It would also mean that the new pitch side bar was not covered by any licence. This seems to be what the application is seeking to address judging by the press comment from City although there are a few problematic statements that were made to the Herts Ad: "so we’ve applied to extend our liquor licence so that we can open up, not just on matchdays, so that our supporters can stay connected with club and bring in some welcome funds at this difficult time, much like our good neighbours in Clarence Park, St Albans Cricket Club" "Sadly, right now, with our current licence restrictions very few people have even seen it, but with the lockdown gradually lifting and with spring now here, what better place could there be to enjoy a drink?" Firstly the application made by City is not to extend the licence but it is an application for a premises licence so the club house could operate more like a pub. Secondly, this is not the same licence that the cricket club has as far as I am aware because the cricket club will be selling alcohol to members only on non match days and if it is open for other events then it will have temporary events notices. Finally, there are not licence restrictions which mean few people have seen the pitch side bar. The club premises certificate will apply to the club house as with any other sports / members club. I suppose a second club premises certificate could have been applied for to cover the pitch side bar but that might not have worked. The reality is that to sell alcohol from more than one location a different, more expensive and more onerous licence was required in the form of a premises licence which is what has been applied for. In principle this makes a lot of sense to ensure that all alcohol sales are properly licenced on match days and if the aim is to generate non-match day revenue. I don't know what has been applied for but often businesses ask for hours that extend way beyond what they actually need so there may be some legitimate challenge to the scope of the application. I suspect the police will also have concerns on the prevention of crime and disorder, public safety and public nuisance grounds as this would be creating a new licenced premises (i.e. outside usual match day operation which is limited by the ground opening times) in a residential area and in a park - it is unlikely that they will want the problems associated with any licenced premises being combined with people being able to exit into a park at night. The solution to this cannot be Leigh locking / unlocking the gate to let people in and out because then the premises are not open to the public which they would need to be. If the licence does get granted in some form there will be other practicalities to resolve: the locking up of the park at dusk (as noted this cannot be resolved by keeping the gates locked and people being let in / out); previous issues that have been flagged about generating non-match day revenue as this may not be permitted by the trust deed that governs the management of the park (when gifted from JB Maple to the City) and / or City's lease; and presumably there will need to be a full time (paid?) member of staff who is the DPS and holds a personal alcohol licence.
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saint68
Saints Reserve Team Player
Posts: 497
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Post by saint68 on Apr 6, 2021 14:10:54 GMT
I would have thought that the only entrance that could be used after the Park closes at dusk would be the York Road entrance, which the local residents would not be happy about. But I can’t help but wonder if it’s worth the effort - I can’t imagine the Club House being overly busy, there are several decent pubs within easy distance.
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Post by headcontainer on Apr 7, 2021 17:58:23 GMT
I would have thought that the only entrance that could be used after the Park closes at dusk would be the York Road entrance, which the local residents would not be happy about. But I can’t help but wonder if it’s worth the effort - I can’t imagine the Club House being overly busy, there are several decent pubs within easy distance. would u really want to be walking down York rd at 10 30 half pissed no thankyou
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Post by bob666 on Apr 7, 2021 23:34:23 GMT
Is it really necessary to apply for a licence that allows the clubhouse to open on regular basis outside of match days? As others have said is there actually any demand? Lets be honest there are a lot more attractive places to drink in St Albans. I know the local residents are essentially anti-football and would try and stop us selling tea at halftime if they could but its probably not a appropriate site for a 'pub' with normal hours. Is there any point in complicating the application by requesting something that unlikely to of any real use
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Post by manfrommars on Apr 8, 2021 12:04:52 GMT
I agree there doesn't really seem a demand. Even if it did somehow go through I can't see it lasting as it wouldn't be sustainable financially. Maybe a weekend license could be worth a try and see how it goes. Monday-Thursday are relatively quiet days for pubs everywhere so I wouldn't see the point in opening up on those days.
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albanian
Saints Reserve Team Player
Posts: 372
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Post by albanian on Apr 8, 2021 12:50:02 GMT
I do think they can make it work, but they'll need to offer something a bit different from the other pubs in town. My suggestion would be to run it like a micropub. A large variety of fresh good quality real ale, pub snacks, cosy interior. If they don't make significant improvements then it'll just end up being a social club for small number of volunteers.
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Post by tacheofgoodyear on Apr 8, 2021 15:19:43 GMT
I agree that I cannot see the demand or how it would be viable.
I suspect this has more to do with events where the pitchside bar could be used when there is no match on particularly in the summer. You could see how parties could be hosted with kids using the pitch or even music events
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saint68
Saints Reserve Team Player
Posts: 497
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Post by saint68 on Apr 8, 2021 16:27:40 GMT
The Council own the ground and I wonder how they’d react if the Club wanted to host events on non-match days. Not enthusiastically I suspect.
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Post by tacheofgoodyear on Apr 8, 2021 18:00:12 GMT
Depends what the lease permits (and given I think the rent is nominal only I agree it might be problematic) but also goes back to the issues raised before about whether the trust deed for the Park permits commercial / revenue generating activity. There certainly seemed to be a view previously that it didn't - Verdi's is ok because it is not on land covered by the trust deed but a coffee stall or ice cream concession in the Park may not be for example. The cricket club do hire the pavilion out for events so some level of commercial enterprise must be ok but I seem to remember there were arguments about whether things like flower beds could be sponsored by local businesses. The trust deed is in the same form as when JB Maple gave the Park to the City and it does require some interpretation to put what it says in a modern context. I am pretty sure the trust deed is available somewhere online but cannot find it. This is from 2013 but I don't think the trust deed was updated so the same arguments probably will come up again - linkThere are also comments on the consultation process from 2013 here which makes it look like the changes proposed were more than a bit of updating - link and link
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Post by EFMTFTV on Apr 9, 2021 20:29:30 GMT
I would have thought that the only entrance that could be used after the Park closes at dusk would be the York Road entrance, which the local residents would not be happy about. But I can’t help but wonder if it’s worth the effort - I can’t imagine the Club House being overly busy, there are several decent pubs within easy distance. would u really want to be walking down York rd at 10 30 half pissed no thankyou Why? What's going to happen to you
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Post by EFMTFTV on Apr 9, 2021 20:33:36 GMT
The football club is too lazy to make anything of the clubhouse and the innovators that were offering their services to the club via supporters groups have been driven out.
We had Housebound up there for a while, a very busy and successful night that made the club a lot of money and was staffed by supporters for free (supporters that have since been driven out) but the club obviously didn't like the hassle involved and pulled a night up there with very little notice, and some cock and bull story about the fire certificate, and they never came back
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Post by headcontainer on Apr 10, 2021 10:16:57 GMT
would u really want to be walking down York rd at 10 30 half pissed no thankyou Why? What's going to happen to you to many fruit cakes about
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Post by minty on May 26, 2021 11:16:20 GMT
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Post by Canary Saint on May 26, 2021 16:33:50 GMT
My! That Clarence Rd resident must have frequented some pretty rough pubs in his time. Or more likely he has never been near one,
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Post by Boomer on Jun 2, 2021 21:48:53 GMT
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Post by lagerman on Jun 3, 2021 7:44:38 GMT
Well, let's see how long this lasts. As has been mentioned by a few people already, it's hard to see this being a viable project. Good luck to the Club on this, but whether it works or not is debatable. Personally, apart from on matchdays, l can't see me using it as l don't live in St Albans and when l do come to St Albans l always drink in pubs up in the City Centre
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saint68
Saints Reserve Team Player
Posts: 497
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Post by saint68 on Jun 3, 2021 7:56:52 GMT
I’d be surprised if the Club are planning to open all day seven days a week, there just wouldn’t be the demand to make it viable. I assume they want the freedom to open for special events (parties, corporate events etc) or when there’s things on like the Euros, which they could show in the Club House or on a big screen by the side of the pitch.
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Post by lagerman on Jun 3, 2021 22:09:29 GMT
I’d be surprised if the Club are planning to open all day seven days a week, there just wouldn’t be the demand to make it viable. I assume they want the freedom to open for special events (parties, corporate events etc) or when there’s things on like the Euros, which they could show in the Club House or on a big screen by the side of the pitch. Well that would be the idea l would think
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