hotsaint
Saints Reserve Team Player
Posts: 291
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Post by hotsaint on May 19, 2023 11:30:39 GMT
Stortford fans reckon we should be in the North division as we hosted the War of the Roses between Lancastrians and Yorkists in the 15th Century so we have more history in that direction
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Post by saint68 on May 19, 2023 11:50:05 GMT
Stortford fans reckon we should be in the North division as we hosted the War of the Roses between Lancastrians and Yorkists in the 15th Century so we have more history in that direction How can we argue against such faultless logic? |
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Post by saint68 on May 19, 2023 11:50:23 GMT
Stortford fans reckon we should be in the North division as we hosted the War of the Roses between Lancastrians and Yorkists in the 15th Century so we have more history in that direction How can we argue against such faultless logic? |
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Post by lagerman on May 19, 2023 15:43:42 GMT
Stortford fans reckon we should be in the North division as we hosted the War of the Roses between Lancastrians and Yorkists in the 15th Century so we have more history in that direction The biggest load of balls I've ever heard |
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Post by norfamptonsaint on May 19, 2023 16:09:14 GMT
Perhaps it’s time to introduce a Conference Midlands division and to apply strict geographical criteria for the membership of the three divisions. The lowest two teams in the Conference National from each area to be relegated to that division. Ditch the play-offs too.
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Post by lagerman on May 19, 2023 17:51:04 GMT
Perhaps it’s time to introduce a Conference Midlands division and to apply strict geographical criteria for the membership of the three divisions. The lowest two teams in the Conference National from each area to be relegated to that division. Ditch the play-offs too. Well, l thought about that too, but any new divisions may impact on the Leagues below and so on and so going down the Leagues. Good idea though. |
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Post by minty on May 19, 2023 20:00:14 GMT
Perhaps it’s time to introduce a Conference Midlands division and to apply strict geographical criteria for the membership of the three divisions. The lowest two teams in the Conference National from each area to be relegated to that division. Ditch the play-offs too. 6 go down from the National? It will never happen Also, what if for instance the second lowest club from an "area" finished 10th in the national league and by your proposal would be relegated. Hardly fair. Or am i missing your point? |
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Post by lagerman on May 19, 2023 23:28:17 GMT
Perhaps it’s time to introduce a Conference Midlands division and to apply strict geographical criteria for the membership of the three divisions. The lowest two teams in the Conference National from each area to be relegated to that division. Ditch the play-offs too. 6 go down from the National? It will never happen Also, what if for instance the second lowest club from an "area" finished 10th in the national league and by your proposal would be relegated. Hardly fair. Or am i missing your point? I can't see it ever happening whereby 6 teams get relegated from the National League either |
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Post by norfamptonsaint on May 20, 2023 7:09:23 GMT
Hmm, yes - just one promotion from each of the three potential divisions then; the lowest-placed club from each ‘region’ to be relegated from the Conference National regardless of their final position in the table (nothing like a bit of jeopardy).
I’ll work up a full proposal when asked for it by the Conference bigwigs.
What IS silly though is clubs like St Albans (19 miles north of London and 54 miles south of Watford Gap) and Bishops Stortford (closer to Europe than to Darlington etc in many respects) being placed in a ‘northern’ division.
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Post by saintsdad on May 20, 2023 8:11:35 GMT
Three divisions immediately below the conference could work, especially if Ryman, Doc Martens and Unibond are able to sponsor one each
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Post by brummie on May 20, 2023 13:52:51 GMT
^ Yes I agree. Four could go up with the the 3 Champtions of reach division plus the runner up team with the most points in the regular season. No play offs.
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Post by lagerman on May 21, 2023 10:08:59 GMT
I've thought some more on this, and yes, l think a National League Midlands could and perhaps should be introduced.
Based on what people on here have said so far, it could work.
The only thing would be the number of teams, you'd have to have a few teams coming up from the Leagues below to help "fill out" the National divisions, so it would be something that'd have to be cascaded up from below, causing a good few changes
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Post by bob666 on May 21, 2023 22:10:56 GMT
I don't agree with 3 divisions at tier 6. There is already an issue with the gap in quality between National league and Nat South/North. If you have a 3rd division you will just dilute the quality even more- if there 72 rather than 48 teams (with teams brought up from lower leagues) than the average team will be worse. It's unfortunate that some teams in the south of the country have to ply in the north. The only thing I can think of its that a fund be established to compensate clubs who clearly in the 'wrong division' for travel costs. Another thing maybe burden sharing so if Bishop Stortford do a turn this year than there guaranteed south next with Hemel/us or Braintree doing a year and so on.
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Post by citycentresaint on May 21, 2023 23:02:15 GMT
I don't agree with 3 divisions at tier 6. There is already an issue with the gap in quality between National league and Nat South/North. If you have a 3rd division you will just dilute the quality even more- if there 72 rather than 48 teams (with teams brought up from lower leagues) than the average team will be worse. It's unfortunate that some teams in the south of the country have to ply in the north. The only thing I can think of its that a fund be established to compensate clubs who clearly in the 'wrong division' for travel costs. Another thing maybe burden sharing so if Bishop Stortford do a turn this year than there guaranteed south next with Hemel/us or Braintree doing a year and so on. Totally agree fella. Three divisions at our level is going to lead to a drop in the standard. I don't want a bunch of pub teams turning up at CP. Stick to two divisions and compensate the likes of BS when they are put in the wrong league. |
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Post by norfamptonsaint on May 22, 2023 6:45:13 GMT
I don't agree with 3 divisions at tier 6. There is already an issue with the gap in quality between National league and Nat South/North. If you have a 3rd division you will just dilute the quality even more- if they’re 72 rather than 48 teams (with teams brought up from lower leagues) then the average team will be worse. It's unfortunate that some teams in the south of the country have to ply in the north. The only thing I can think of its that a fund be established to compensate clubs who clearly in the 'wrong division' for travel costs. Another thing maybe burden sharing so if Bishop Stortford do a turn this year than there guaranteed south next with Hemel/us or Braintree doing a year and so on. Totally agree fella. Three divisions at our level is going to lead to a drop in the standard. I don't want a bunch of pub teams turning up at CP. Stick to two divisions and compensate the likes of BS when they are put in the wrong league. It always makes me smile when you talk about St Albans City having to play against pub teams, because that’s exactly what we are in the first place, certainly in comparison to the league above. Three divisions wouldn’t dilute the quality anyway, it just ‘regionalises’ the playing field for teams playing at roughly the same level. St Albans City is my favourite pub team and has been for a long, long time before I bought my first official pint (in The Mermaid, btw). |
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Post by middxsaint on May 22, 2023 7:50:29 GMT
Mine was Whitbread Tankard bought in the clubhouse.
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Post by bob666 on May 22, 2023 12:23:58 GMT
Totally agree fella. Three divisions at our level is going to lead to a drop in the standard. I don't want a bunch of pub teams turning up at CP. Stick to two divisions and compensate the likes of BS when they are put in the wrong league. It always makes me smile when you talk about St Albans City having to play against pub teams, because that’s exactly what we are in the first place, certainly in comparison to the league above. Three divisions wouldn’t dilute the quality anyway, it just ‘regionalises’ the playing field for teams playing at roughly the same level. St Albans City is my favourite pub team and has been for a long, long time before I bought my first official pint (in The Mermaid, btw). How can it not dilute quality? If you keep the size of each league similar you would need to take 20 or so teams who are currently in tier 7 level and have not earned promotion by normal means and put them in tier 6. So basic logic tells you that the addition of these teams will lower the average quality? If you divided the premium league into north and south you need to bring 20 teams up from the Championship. Are you suggesting the quality of the average side would be unaffected by this? That the team currently 10th in the championship have the same quality of player as the team 10th in the premium league? How the logic any different at our level? |
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Post by norfamptonsaint on May 22, 2023 16:56:44 GMT
It always makes me smile when you talk about St Albans City having to play against pub teams, because that’s exactly what we are in the first place, certainly in comparison to the league above. Three divisions wouldn’t dilute the quality anyway, it just ‘regionalises’ the playing field for teams playing at roughly the same level. St Albans City is my favourite pub team and has been for a long, long time before I bought my first official pint (in The Mermaid, btw). How can it not dilute quality? If you keep the size of each league similar you would need to take 20 or so teams who are currently in tier 7 level and have not earned promotion by normal means and put them in tier 6. So basic logic tells you that the addition of these teams will lower the average quality? If you divided the premium league into north and south you need to bring 20 teams up from the Championship. Are you suggesting the quality of the average side would be unaffected by this? That the team currently 10th in the championship have the same quality of player as the team 10th in the premium league? How the logic any different at our level? Take all of the teams in the Conference North and South and split them up into the three (or however many are required) regional divisions. I promise that you will be among the consultees bob666, if I’m asked by the powers that be to work up a full proposal. |
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Post by bob666 on May 23, 2023 12:48:21 GMT
How can it not dilute quality? If you keep the size of each league similar you would need to take 20 or so teams who are currently in tier 7 level and have not earned promotion by normal means and put them in tier 6. So basic logic tells you that the addition of these teams will lower the average quality? If you divided the premium league into north and south you need to bring 20 teams up from the Championship. Are you suggesting the quality of the average side would be unaffected by this? That the team currently 10th in the championship have the same quality of player as the team 10th in the premium league? How the logic any different at our level? Take all of the teams in the Conference North and South and split them up into the three (or however many are required) regional divisions. I promise that you will be among the consultees bob666, if I’m asked by the powers that be to work up a full proposal. if you done it that way you only have 16 teams a league. To make it work you need to follow the Scottish premium league model. Everyone plays everyone twice, then split into two 8 team groups (a top group who play for title) and bottom 8 (who play to avoid relegation) who play another two times. Personally, think playing the same 4 times a season is too much. The current system is the worst possible expect for any alternative. |
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Post by lagerman on May 29, 2023 22:25:50 GMT
Regardless of any of our thoughts about whether a Step 2 NL Midlands Division could or should come in or not, and looking at the other Leagues/Steps down the Pyramid where there have been Clubs appealing against their allocations, It must make the powers at be, to at least think about the possibility of introducing a new division here and there l would have thought ?
Seeing as they get Clubs appealing against their allocations every year and have done ever since the Pyramid was first set up, but it'll never ever be exactly right for everyone and the powers at be in Non-League football probably just accept that
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Post by minty on Jun 9, 2023 15:17:29 GMT
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euclid
Saints Reserve Team Player
Posts: 459
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Post by euclid on Jun 10, 2023 13:04:37 GMT
Could easily be us in Conference North in a couple of seasons !!
Would only need Stortford to be relegated and more Southern teams relegated from the National League.
Hemel would be first choice then us, as we would do less miles than Braintree.
I would prefer there to be three leagues at Step 2, like it was up until 2004 (Northern Premier, Southern League & Isthmian League).
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Post by lagerman on Jun 10, 2023 19:02:11 GMT
Could easily be us in Conference North in a couple of seasons !! Would only need Stortford to be relegated and more Southern teams relegated from the National League. Hemel would be first choice then us, as we would do less miles than Braintree. I would prefer there to be three leagues at Step 2, like it was up until 2004 (Northern Premier, Southern League & Isthmian League). I agree, and you never know, the "powers at be" might just, eventually look at a further restructure if they get many more "headaches" as regard allocations over the years to come, they might want to tweak the Pyramid a bit |
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Post by minty on Jun 11, 2023 8:20:31 GMT
Could easily be us in Conference North in a couple of seasons !! Would only need Stortford to be relegated and more Southern teams relegated from the National League. Hemel would be first choice then us, as we would do less miles than Braintree. I would prefer there to be three leagues at Step 2, like it was up until 2004 (Northern Premier, Southern League & Isthmian League). You'd still have the same problem if for instance the bottom three or four in the National were all Southern clubs. There would also be just the champions of each of the three leagues going up plus one other. I would like to see how the play-offs would work for one other spot. |
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Post by Boomer on Jun 11, 2023 10:32:18 GMT
11 Northern teams and 13 Southern teams (incl Oxford City) in the National for the 2023/24 season.
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euclid
Saints Reserve Team Player
Posts: 459
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Post by euclid on Jun 11, 2023 11:13:06 GMT
Could easily be us in Conference North in a couple of seasons !! Would only need Stortford to be relegated and more Southern teams relegated from the National League. Hemel would be first choice then us, as we would do less miles than Braintree. I would prefer there to be three leagues at Step 2, like it was up until 2004 (Northern Premier, Southern League & Isthmian League). You'd still have the same problem if for instance the bottom three or four in the National were all Southern clubs. There would also be just the champions of each of the three leagues going up plus one other. I would like to see how the play-offs would work for one other spot. Agree, it would make promotion to the National League more difficult. The FA/National League don't appear to have any appetite to change from having two leagues, so we're going to be stuck with this structure now for eternity I would imagine. |
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