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Post by Boomer on Feb 21, 2016 13:54:34 GMT
So what exactly did you say to get that reaction, because I'm sure it didn't come about out of thin air. I didn't go to game Boomer. As far as I'm aware he called into question that it was our last chance at survival and we played like that? I'm sure people did use expletives. Do people really expect that no one would ever use a profanity? People like them are the type of people who go every single week. From what I'm told nothing personal was said. If that was the case then of course that is out of order. I did go to the game, ad43 and I can tell you that not just the one person was involved, more like 2 or 3. Yes, it was a poor performance, we simply were not good enough to beat another equally poor side on the day and, as you rightly say, that is where frustration can kick in. It was disappointing in the extreme but I reiterate - we were not good enough, it was not as though the effort was not there. It was but just not channelled effectively. It is no good to keep going on about our players being 'far from the least talented' (let's keep the 'far from least paid' out of it for now). As far as yesterday was concerned, we were and we were carrying at least 4 players and when you are doing that, you are never going to win games. The effort was there, the skill was not, I'm sorry to say. Returning to the after-match business, I have to say that if you go to any football game, rightly or wrongly, you are going hear obscenities. Frankly, it doesn't overly bother me and I don't think it probably does with most supporters. From what I understand, though, this invective was at totally another level aimed directly and personally at those players coming over to thank the fans at the end of the game for their support. Yes, it is out of order.
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Post by lutonroman99 on Feb 21, 2016 15:16:25 GMT
Well, it looked like 2 teams at the bottom of the form table, not much confidence around, and a windy wet day in the mix as well. What else did we expect? For us, not to miss 2 pens in a game for the 3rd time this season, thats just silly. For you? I expected some more spirit? Fight? Snap? Get in our faces, some yellow cards resulting. But nothing really. Our centre back pairing was probably the best thing all day, but 1 is heading back after a loan period. Some of ur fans talking to your boss in bar afterwards in what seemed a reasoned conversation. Hope u can turn it round, well done to ur travelling fans for coming a long way to support, it was a day for the diehards.
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Post by PaperSaint on Feb 21, 2016 15:36:01 GMT
All I'll say about the incident was that the players were coming over to thank the supporters. Unfortunately a couple of supporters directed a stream of abuse at the players - and most players turned away and headed to the tunnel. Corcoran did react and Martin gestured to wave away those couple of supporters (I didn't see him make the alleged sign). Corcoran did react and was pulled away by a Bath City player. A supporter was stopped by security from heading towards the dugout.
Players are human just like supporters. How many of us would not react with that level of abuse thrown at us.
Players wage debates is dangerous ground - and can be unfair at this level. Some players struggle to make ends meet if they don't have day time jobs - and we do have that situation in our squad. Society is represented in our squad - which is what non league is about.
As has already been said, effort can't be faulted. Quality wasn't there yesterday but don't turn on the team at a time when we have someone who knows their stuff now working on putting things right. Together we stand, divided we fall...
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Post by minty on Feb 21, 2016 16:02:30 GMT
Abuse was directed at one of our players in particular during the second half. If shouting the player's name and calling them a w****r isn't personal I don't know what is.
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Post by ad43footsoldier on Feb 21, 2016 16:15:08 GMT
Abuse was directed at one of our players in particular during the second half. If shouting the player's name and calling them a w****r isn't personal I don't know what is. And if it's the player I would assume it is that you're talking about, he's been just as guilty about insulting fans on and off the pitch over the years. Sometimes fairly but other times not. His excuse? Frustration and caring about the club. Pretty similar to these two of three fans yesterday I'd say!
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Post by ad43footsoldier on Feb 21, 2016 16:26:40 GMT
Players wage debates is dangerous ground - and can be unfair at this level. Some players struggle to make ends meet if they don't have day time jobs - and we do have that situation in our squad. Society is represented in our squad - which is what non league is about. It's part time football! They should have other jobs ! The fact that some players can afford not to just by going to football training two nights a week, and playing on Saturday is remarkable! You make it sound like they're hard done by. That only comes from the obsession and the pockets of the fans in England. As I said before not one other league in the world in sport in the world in division 6 would you even be able to earn a penny. So sometimes you need to make a concession for the barking mad fans who give us their Saturday's to support and pay for you to do so. I can't comment on the effort yesterday as I wasn't there, although I struggle believe that with maximum effort we couldn't even create a chance against a relegation struggler. But I have been there for plenty of games where the effort has been far from 100% and it's for that reason so much hard work has gone down the drain this season. I think some of the players need to realise how lucky they even are to play the game they love at this level at all.
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Post by Hatboy on Feb 21, 2016 16:30:50 GMT
From what I understand, though, this invective was at totally another level aimed directly and personally at those players coming over to thank the fans at the end of the game for their support. So you are having an argument/debate/discussion about something you didn't even hear ? If the roles were reversed and we were a goal up and missed two penalties we would be lucky to get a point let alone all three !
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Post by PaperSaint on Feb 21, 2016 16:52:51 GMT
Players wage debates is dangerous ground - and can be unfair at this level. Some players struggle to make ends meet if they don't have day time jobs - and we do have that situation in our squad. Society is represented in our squad - which is what non league is about. It's part time football! They should have other jobs ! The fact that some players can afford not to just by going to football training two nights a week, and playing on Saturday is remarkable! You make it sound like they're hard done by. That only comes from the obsession and the pockets of the fans in England. As I said before not one other league in the world in sport in the world in division 6 would you even be able to earn a penny. So sometimes you need to make a concession for the barking mad fans who give us their Saturday's to support and pay for you to do so. I can't comment on the effort yesterday as I wasn't there, although I struggle believe that with maximum effort we couldn't even create a chance against a relegation struggler. But I have been there for plenty of games where the effort has been far from 100% and it's for that reason so much hard work has gone down the drain this season. I think some of the players need to realise how lucky they even are to play the game they love at this level at all. It's just more complex than that and this league has teams that are more or less full time. Some of those players who don't get much in return, work very hard for it. It's also obvious that Allinson is working them hard currently. Just too easy to make assumptions in this. Will keep repeating it but time to move on now, all of us work together and leave the infighting behind us
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Post by albansaint on Feb 21, 2016 16:54:11 GMT
Yes it was dismal yesterday and at the end of the game, rather than wait as usual to applaud the players, I decided to make my way home. No applause was due I felt but why anyone thinks it helps to abuse our own players I don't know. They must know how bad they were. And why abuse Sam? He was the one player using his brain & trying the carry the ball forward rather than overhit it out of play.
Having seen the tweet above I wonder if it's time to let Ben move on. That is even more inexcusable than any abuse directed at him.
All rather sad in a season that I fear will only get worse.
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Post by Saint on Feb 21, 2016 17:20:16 GMT
Mod note- I've had to remove at least one post, and edit others, due to the language which is contained within them. I'd like to remind everyone that foul language is against forum policy, and will not be tolerated, whatever form it comes in.
This forum is welcoming place, and is visited by people of all ages, and as such, foul language is not welcome.
Thanks.
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Post by ad43footsoldier on Feb 21, 2016 17:21:02 GMT
Yes it was dismal yesterday and at the end of the game, rather than wait as usual to applaud the players, I decided to make my way home. No applause was due I felt but why anyone thinks it helps to abuse our own players I don't know. They must know how bad they were. And why abuse Sam? He was the one player using his brain & trying the carry the ball forward rather than overhit it out of play. Having seen the tweet above I wonder if it's time to let Ben move on. That is even more inexcusable than any abuse directed at him. All rather sad in a season that I fear will only get worse. Why do people seem to think Sam was getting personal criticism. They represent the team. He just happened to walk over. If Chelsea put in a gutless performance and John Terry walks over to away fans, they vent their criticisms to him, whether he played well or not. Because he represents the team.
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Post by PaperSaint on Feb 21, 2016 17:26:57 GMT
Yes it was dismal yesterday and at the end of the game, rather than wait as usual to applaud the players, I decided to make my way home. No applause was due I felt but why anyone thinks it helps to abuse our own players I don't know. They must know how bad they were. And why abuse Sam? He was the one player using his brain & trying the carry the ball forward rather than overhit it out of play. Having seen the tweet above I wonder if it's time to let Ben move on. That is even more inexcusable than any abuse directed at him. All rather sad in a season that I fear will only get worse. Well said - but hope this is the point where it can only get better as it can't get worse
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Post by ad43footsoldier on Feb 21, 2016 17:28:01 GMT
No worries. I'll type it out without the swear words.
Text message from Ben Martin to fan;
Come on then you little 'twerp' Don't hide behind stewards, you want a fight and call me a plonker, You name the place and bring as many friends as you want. Oh and bring your old man with ya.
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Post by notsorecentconvert on Feb 21, 2016 17:37:11 GMT
Could the offending post not have been censored, rather than removed? After all this thread is debating the conflict between a couple of fans and a couple of players after the match.
I empathise with the fans for being angry if it was as poor a performance as some are saying. Bath is a long way to go, the money spent will have been considerable, and fans do travel with the expectation that their team will put up a fight.
But, letting anger spill over at the end of a new manager's third game in charge seems counter-productive. Allinson has made a lot of changes in a short space of time – bringing in players, reorganising his coaching set-up and so on – but we can't expect miracles overnight.
We need 7 or 8 wins to get out of a mess that is worsening with each passing week. I know circumstances are very different but look at Margate – down near the bottom with us at Christmas but just outside the play-offs now.
To get those wins we need everyone pulling together.
Now, I wasn't at the game but many a tame 1-0 defeat can give the impression of lack of effort when actually it was just a lack of quality.
Perhaps it's time to stop kidding ourselves that the team is better than their current position. 30 league matches don't lie.
All we can hope is that Allinson manages to make some very quick improvements because give it another three or four games and it really will be too late.
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Post by PaperSaint on Feb 21, 2016 17:39:14 GMT
Yes it was dismal yesterday and at the end of the game, rather than wait as usual to applaud the players, I decided to make my way home. No applause was due I felt but why anyone thinks it helps to abuse our own players I don't know. They must know how bad they were. And why abuse Sam? He was the one player using his brain & trying the carry the ball forward rather than overhit it out of play. Having seen the tweet above I wonder if it's time to let Ben move on. That is even more inexcusable than any abuse directed at him. All rather sad in a season that I fear will only get worse. Why do people seem to think Sam was getting personal criticism. They represent the team. He just happened to walk over. If Chelsea put in a gutless performance and John Terry walks over to away fans, they vent their criticisms to him, whether he played well or not. Because he represents the team. It lacked quality but it wasn't a gutless performance. No doubt disciplinary proceedings will happen regarding Ben and those supporters who made threats also need to look at their own behaviour. Inexcusable from both sides. This is stupidity...
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Post by bowsaint on Feb 21, 2016 17:45:51 GMT
Agree that it's an odd comment to say that 'some players struggle to make ends meet if they don't have day time jobs'. Surely that is obvious, as is the case with most people who can't rely solely on part time employment.
Some serious questions do need to be asked about this season.
1) When our chairman publically states a points target of 20 points from the first 10 games it gives the impression, however unintentional, that we are going to challenge for the title. 2 points a game over the season is 84 points, last year Bromley won the league with 77 points. Why have we barely got 20 points at the end of Feb?
2) Signing a striker for a club record transfer fee in the summer (aided directly by some supporters' own money) who has been a previous league top scorer and who is in his prime, surely indicates a team showing its intent for a competitive season?
3) At the start of the season the spine of the team was Joe Welch (clearly good enough for this level), Ben Martin (former league winner with Welling), James Comley (England C international) and Louie Theophanous. We also signed Scott Thomas (promotion with Boreham Wood last year) and Lewis Hilliard (generally considered the best player in the Southern Premier for the last few seasons and who is now apparently playing very well for Boston who are challenging for promotion from Conference North). Luke Allen also had an excellent pre-season and Lee Chappell was excellent in the Conference South last year. Does any fair analysis of our squad say that it should be anywhere near bottom of the league, regardless of budget?
I have no insight into what goes on behind the scenes, managers 'losing' dressing rooms etc. but something has obviously gone badly wrong and the owners and chairman need to be able to quickly identify what. I've not been to a large number of games this season but most recently at Sutton I'd say only 2 players obviously put in 100% effort, Jernade Meade and Harry Crawford (both of whom have left). At home to Concord our effort couldn't be faulted but I'd need convincing that a majority of players have given their all for the club, the fans and their managers over the season.
Ian Allinson is a really excellent appointment and hopefully we can build positively towards next season, no doubt he knows exactly what we need. Let's hope he's able to get the level of backing required to clear out some of the players who no longer seem to represent the club with the same level of enthusiasm they did during our promotion season and replace them with players of a decent calibre.
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Post by PaperSaint on Feb 21, 2016 17:58:48 GMT
The comment was only to highlight the point that players at our club aren't comparable to highly paid pros and lives luxurious lifestyles
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Post by ad43footsoldier on Feb 21, 2016 18:06:01 GMT
The comment was only to highlight the point that players at our club aren't comparable to highly paid pros and lives luxurious lifestyles No-one said they were. They shouldn't be. They're not even close ability wise. My point was that the fact they can even earn any money at all at this level, never mind a wage that is probably more than a lot of people that attend, just to go to football training twice a week and play football on Saturday for division 6 football, means that they should gives fans a break. They should give their all, because they're lucky. Should we really have to beg players to walk over and clap the fans, when we enable them to even play at this level and earn decent money ? When they know that's all the fans want? A slight recognition? Maybe even come up to the bar for a chat once in a while ?
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Post by Saint on Feb 21, 2016 18:37:29 GMT
Could the offending post not have been censored, rather than removed? After all this thread is debating the conflict between a couple of fans and a couple of players after the match. I empathise with the fans for being angry if it was as poor a performance as some are saying. Bath is a long way to go, the money spent will have been considerable, and fans do travel with the expectation that their team will put up a fight. But, letting anger spill over at the end of a new manager's third game in charge seems counter-productive. Allinson has made a lot of changes in a short space of time – bringing in players, reorganising his coaching set-up and so on – but we can't expect miracles overnight. We need 7 or 8 wins to get out of a mess that is worsening with each passing week. I know circumstances are very different but look at Margate – down near the bottom with us at Christmas but just outside the play-offs now. To get those wins we need everyone pulling together. Now, I wasn't at the game but many a tame 1-0 defeat can give the impression of lack of effort when actually it was just a lack of quality. Perhaps it's time to stop kidding ourselves that the team is better than their current position. 30 league matches don't lie. All we can hope is that Allinson manages to make some very quick improvements because give it another three or four games and it really will be too late. No, as it was an image/screenshot of a conversation, and not text based. However, AD43 has posted above your post a fairly censored version. Other purely text based posts have been edited/censored appropriately.
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Post by PaperSaint on Feb 21, 2016 18:52:54 GMT
The comment was only to highlight the point that players at our club aren't comparable to highly paid pros and lives luxurious lifestyles No-one said they were. They shouldn't be. They're not even close ability wise. My point was that the fact they can even earn any money at all at this level, never mind a wage that is probably more than a lot of people that attend, just to go to football training twice a week and play football on Saturday for division 6 football, means that they should gives fans a break. They should give their all, because they're lucky. Should we really have to beg players to walk over and clap the fans, when we enable them to even play at this level and earn decent money ? When they know that's all the fans want? A slight recognition? Maybe even come up to the bar for a chat once in a while ? I agree. But to be fair to the majority of them that is what they did after Concord Rangers match and after the Ebbsfleet match
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Post by cityslicker88 on Feb 21, 2016 18:53:51 GMT
Someone said abt the side being a good one to start season and that the players are good enough, can only mean one thing, and that's that promises made by chairman owners abt bonus money to be paid really soured the squad and they felt they were not appreciated..Although maybe some results went against the former managers, at least they had passion and a desire for the club, something that seems to have disappeared in recent weeks since they resigned.. Was only just over a year and a half since the famous day at chesham where fans and players celebrated together, they were trying to build something major but felt the backing didn't come, a very respectful mid table finish last season but all of a sudden came cost cutting from the owners, as well as price increase in the gate. Where has it all gone wrong, maybe there is more going on behind the scenes, the club is a circus at present we have some idiot fans that think they can do as they wish regards abuse from the sides.. But if you change pretty much the whole squad and only pick up 10 pts from a possible 39, using two different managers in the process then the fans have a right to be a little upset.. We should have pulled together 13 games ago and got behind the management that cared and who had brought us massive success in the short time they were here.. Hold on, got to go, can here a fat lady singing
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Post by citycentresaint on Feb 21, 2016 19:50:46 GMT
Season has been a disgrace up to this point.
Lots of fans pay a lot of money to follow the club and have been served up with clown like performances week after week.
I hope Allison can be the man to sort out the club.
All the goodwill that was around the club after the promotion seems to have been eroded.
Need the council to back the club and allow us to earn a 7 day income.
We need a 3G pitch.
COYS
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Post by casper on Feb 21, 2016 20:29:55 GMT
Meanwhile, back to the game ....
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Post by Boomer on Feb 21, 2016 20:31:58 GMT
From what I understand, though, this invective was at totally another level aimed directly and personally at those players coming over to thank the fans at the end of the game for their support. So you are having an argument/debate/discussion about something you didn't even hear ? I know what I saw and those that were on top of it were very clear on exactly what they heard. I think that entitles me to a view on the matter.
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Post by casper on Feb 21, 2016 21:36:29 GMT
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Post by notsorecentconvert on Feb 21, 2016 22:00:18 GMT
So you are having an argument/debate/discussion about something you didn't even hear ? I know what I saw and those that were on top of it were very clear on exactly what they heard. I think that entitles me to a view on the matter. I'd like this forum to steer away from hearsay and rumour and stick only to known knowns, rather than probable knowns.
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Post by bob666 on Feb 21, 2016 22:08:12 GMT
I am not defending personal abuse. I would ask, however, was the abuse directed towards the St Albans players any worse than the abuse the players themselves have directed towards officials in the past? I not aware of any referees subsequently taking to twitter to offer to fight the offending players. Ben Martin is 33 not 12. There is no excuse for this type of behaviour.
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albanian
Saints Reserve Team Player
Posts: 372
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Post by albanian on Feb 21, 2016 23:15:57 GMT
I don't condone fans being abusive towards the players and I think Sam and Ben's response was understandable in the heat of the moment. What's completely unacceptable is Ben offering out a fight a full 24 hours after the incident! It's not like this is even anything new, the guy's toxic and has complete contempt for the fans. I really hope to never see him in a city shirt again.
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Post by asaintreborn on Feb 22, 2016 14:10:45 GMT
I'm not going to talk about what happened this weekend or what happened yesterday. What I want to talk about is St.Albans City Fans and let me make this clear it's the minority not all. We have become the Newcastle United Fans of Non league football and some St.Albans City Fans seems to think it's our God given right to play at this level and it clearly isn't.We need to stop saying our team is to good to be in this position it really isn't. TEAM being the key, it is a team of individual that have talent but don't work as a team. We don't have the budget to to be at this level by right. Yes the owners have chucked a lot of money and SBYS have helped, but that was largely due to the position were in and a panic reaction. In terms of natural income that support the budget we are in the bottom three easily. I'm tired of hearing the moaning that goes on you don't see this at other clubs at this level of football. Your right as a fan to complain and voice your opinion is on match day left on the field. No one has died! This keyboard warrior culture thE club's fans have adopted is a joke. You don't see it on other forums or social media at other clubs at this level.
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kroofs
Saints Trialist
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Post by kroofs on Feb 22, 2016 14:54:39 GMT
back to the game then...... Ben Martin in giving a away a penalty shocker. Who would have thought. Why is Locke not playing. ?
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