Forum meeting, 16th August

[Dr Saint]

Has anyone any report/comment on last night's meeting? As I missed the initial club site announcement, and there seemed to be a lack of further publicity until close to the date (or did I miss that also), I was unable to attend.

I'm sure that there was much important news to disclose re the club, both on and off the field.

Anyone attend?

DS

[EFMTFTV]

I went, it wasn't very well attended but I don't think it was that well advertised either

To be honest there wasn't a great deal mentioned that wasn't mentioned before at previous one, we need more commerical stuff, stand will cost £2, we've upped the budget for the first 10 weeks to see where we are, we are one of about 6 teams who should be challenging (no very big spenders this year), Barry Hayles signed because his wife remembers David Howell from a club 15yrs ago (maybe not the only reason) , ways of stopping people bunking in and getting in free are being tightened, the club has taken over running of the shop/coaches from the trust, we can drink outside now and some pumps have been installed in the club shop. I'm sure there was more, if I remember more I'll post it...

The most important point raised however was the tea bags being left in the tea cups afetr purchace

[Boomer]

Thanks for that, EFMTFTV, much appreciated as I was unable to make it.

Only one thing - the Club were in charge of running/paying for the away coaches last season not the Trust, although the Trust did help subsidise the full cost of the coaches by arranging for supporters to also travel with the players/staff etc and to contribute their fares towards the costs, which I understand was somewhere in the region of 45% of the total costs.

[AFF]

Aug 19, 2012 19:15:50 GMT Boomer said:

although the Trust did help subsidise the full cost of the coaches by arranging for supporters to also travel with the players/staff etc and to contribute their fares towards the costs, which I understand was somewhere in the region of 45% of the total costs.

So a member of the Trust took the names of supporters who paid to travel on the coach to some away games...
And that's called "help(ing) to subsidise...in the region of 45% of the total costs?

[euclid]

Still bashing the Trust at every opportunity then AFF?
Nothing changes!

[AFF]

Moi? Au contraire.
I'm always pleased to see the Trust receiving praise for its efforts. I was simply intrigued as, on first reading, it appeared that the Trust had subsidised the club to the tune of 45% of the cost of the team's coach (that's bus, not Ken Charlery). One wouldn't want any Trust official or boomer to be criticised for being disingenuous. Always happy to assist.
Talking of the Trust, where does one find out how much of the supporters' money it has in its bank account? Is it still around £15,000?

[euclid]

Why don't you ask one of the Trust officials in person? That's what I do if I want to know something.

[Hatboy]

No news on the situation with the club shop at the forum ?

[EFMTFTV]

Yes there was, it's now run by the club and not the trust

Personally I'm a bit confused at the current situation with the Trust and the club, can someone enlighten me but it seems the trust is running as a separate entity to the club, gaining funds on the back of the club but not handing any of the money over to the club and the club wants some of this money. The difference seems to be that the old supporters club and the current trust would do / did do the same thing but whereas the supporters club would hand the money to the club the trust keeps theirs for a rainy day

Can someone assist?

[AFF]

Hi EFMTFTV.
I hear that the (football) club is now running the club shop and the (football) club are arranging the raffles etc. this season. All proceeds are, thus, banked by the football club.
Sadly, I cannot see that the Trust as a corporate body (separately from certain individual members who volunteer their services where appropriate, most notably Ian Rogers who never seems to stop) is doing anything this season.
I am very concerned on a number of levels, not least as the Supporters Trust should have been representative of all supporters and should have been the fans' voice generally and specifically with a seat on the board of the football club. I have no idea whether the seat on the board from last season that I believe Ian Rogers occupied is again available.
It is difficult to establish what the Trust actually does or intends to do. I fully appreciate that the Officers are volunteers and not paid officials so I hesitate to criticise, but from their web-site, the details of the last monthly board meeting is from January 2011. Whenever any question is raised on here concerning the Trust, there is a distant rustle which might or might not be discomfort and the usual few people who should know the answers simply say "Ask an Official, why don't you?".
That's all very sad.
But it doesn't stop there.
The Supporters Trust has, to my mind, a very significant sum in its bank account, perhaps in the region of £15,000, which has accumulated from the original £9,000 cash and £6,000 stock (merchandise in the shop) at valuation transferred to the newly formed Trust by the old supporters club, which, since then has increased from annual subscriptions and the various fund-raising activities that it has undertaken within Clarence Park.
I consider that to be an outrageously high amount of cash for a supporters club/Trust of a football club at this level of the football pyramid to be holding. Whatever are the rights or wrongs of my view, the next question is "What are they intending to do with it?".
I ask the question and I will get the same old answer. It astonishes me that members of the Trust haven't asked the question themselves, or if they have asked and are satisfied with the answer, why they won't air it here.

[St Michael]

I would also like to know what the Saints Trust holds in terms of its financial resources. I am a member of it but have not received any communication from the Trust in the last year or so....

I think a statement from the Trust to its members would be helpful, listing what has been done and what is planned. I would want to contribute more if I could understand what the aim is. I can see the value of the holdings as a fall-back if the club, in general, ever got itself into really deep water again (never that far away for many football clubs) but I am not sure what the vision is ?

[Canary Saint]

As someone who only turns up to watch the football and apart from paying to get in and buying a programme contribute nothing to the running of the club. I'm therefore not really in a position to comment on this particular debate and am just trying to be helpful by showing the link below to the objectives of the Trust.

www.saintscitytrust.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=48:objectives&catid=34:objectives&Itemid=64

I'll leave it to others to discuss whether or not the objectives (aims/vision) are currently being met.

[AFF]

Although I was (and perhaps still am!) a lifetime member of the Supporters Club, and I was a member of the 'working party' that met monthly or more for 12 months or so to consider the establishment of the Trust, I am not, and have never been, a member of it.
Canary Saint has helpfully posted a link to an extract of the Trust's constitution which sets out its aims.
We can all debate the rights of wrongs of each of the 8 sections of it (for me, item 7 should come 1st) but its the detail of how those aims are to be advanced that is relevant.
I have no objections to a supporters club/trust holding an appropriate amount in its bank account 'for a rainy day' and that is able to be defended as a principle.
However, £15,000, if that is the amount, is a fierce sum of money and I can see no justification for that much to held by the Trust in all the current circumstances at Clarence Park.
I have no reason to doubt the intentions of the current owners or Ian Ridley as Chairman and I am sure that they are open to approaches from individual supporters concerning any current issue at any sensible time. That's how it should be. But I also feel that there should be a seat on the board for a supporters' representative and it is most disappointing if an Official of the Trust - the obvious candidate in the absence of a supporters Club - is no longer in that position.
I am also disappointed although not entirely surprised that a Trust member hasn't heard from it formally for over a year.
Perhaps we will all hear something soon.....

[St Michael]

I don't mean to impugn the Trust in any way, far from it. I suppose it is up to me to access the Trust web-site more often to keep up to date. I live in Surrey and find it difficult to get to St.A as often as I would like, family/work etc. so can't participate in person, but presumably many Trust members are in a similar position ?

[euclid]

First can I make it clear I'm not on the Trust committee but I am a Trust member. I don't live in the St.Albans area and I haven't seen a match since the Evesham away game last March, so I'm not party to the every day goings on apart from what is mentioned on the internet.

I'm very disappointed to hear that there appears to have been a breakdown in relations with the Club.
Why has this happenned? Is this the Club's decision or the Trust's board?
I think we could do with some official clarification from both parties regarding this.

[AFF]

Well, euclid.
As you said up above, when you have a question you ask one of the Trust's officers in person. When you have done so and had some form of response, perhaps you will let the rest of us know.
I am guessing that a minimum of a dozen members of the Trust, maybe 20 or more, will have read this thread. One person who, when last I heard, had been co-opted onto the Committee of the Trust has definitely read this thread and he is not shy of making posts elsewhere on here.
And yet not one will answer the question raised by me on here. I don't know whether EFMTFTV is a Trust member. I'm not as I have declared but St Michael and you euclid, have said that you are members.
Don't you find it strange that that the Trust which declares itself to be open and transparent and representative of all supporters is silent over this stuff?
Perhaps it's all on a "need to know" basis.
Wait. One more thing. Here's a question for you Trust members. Do you think that is it right for the Trust to have supporters money to the tune of £15,000 or whatever it is, sitting in its bank account?
And here's another. Do you think it's right for the Trust to have had a minimum of £9,000 of supporters money sitting in its bank account since the Trust's formation 3 years ago?
Finally, for the avoidance of all doubt, I should make it absolutely clear that I have no thoughts whatsoever of any impropriety on the part of any Official or member of the Trust. That has never occurred to me. I would simply like to know the amount of supporters' money that the Trust is holding and what, if anything, it is intending to do with that money
And please don't accuse me of "trust bashing".

[bushay]

Viewing from afar, which means I may be miles off the mark, but it seems as if The Trust was set up and replaced the old supporters club in direct response to the way the club was being run by the previous owner and the associated fears about the future of the club. Now that ownership has changed and perhaps some of these fears have fallen away, it would seem a fantastic opportunity for the Trust/Supporters club to thrive alongside the new owners and chairman who certainly seem to have the club at heart. From AFF's post, it seems the club have taken on some of the duties traditionally carried out by the supporters club/trust.

I am not a member of The Trust and can't ascertain from websites/forums what activities they are carrying out, fundrasing or otherwise, or whether they still sit on the Board and have input into the running of the club. The last news I can see is that £1500 was handed over for new training lights in January. I presume membership fees are still collected on an annual basis as the SC used to do. The question of funds and stock transferred from the old SC to The Trust can no doubt be answered simply, but an answer is needed. The 'war chest' built up by the old SC for a rainy day was done so over a long period of time with a great deal of effort and deserves more than the current silence being offered. In my opninion it should not be for a supporter to have to ask, but for the Trust to share the information, which I'm sure they will.

From experience, a thriving supporters club/Trust, visible on matchdays and assisting the club in some of the activities that the club simply don't have the manpower or manhours to carry out is essential to making the club tick and fans feeling like they can help out in any small way they can.

Obviously if the club have decided to take on everything and do it themselves then fantastic, but there will always be a role for the organisation representing supporters.

[mrtsharpe]

Hello all,

I have read post's on this site since it was first formed but have never signed up or felt the need to contribute until now. Now I have be warned I say my piece :-)

I just want some clarification if anybody can help.

Have I got it right in thinkinking then that the fans paid to be in the Supporters Club.
Some bright sparks in the supporters club decided to start a trust.
No deliberation was conducted with the members of the supporters club to see if this was in fact something they wanted.
The leaders of the supporters club now trusty in effect "stole" the fans money and put it into the trust where it still sits today having got bigger and bigger due to money recieved from Merchandise and Player Sponsorships which generally clubs keep in house.

On top of this the trust will now not release any of the money they have stolen from supporters and raised on the back of the clubs good gesture to help the club move forward?

[AFF]

Perhaps I can help, mrtsharpe.
Back in the day, there was a supporters club and fans who joined paid an annual subscription. The supporters club raised money in the form of raffles, club shop etc. etc. and that money was used as the Committee chose. In addition to various items such as goal nets and maintenance, I recall that the SC paid for the match officials for the successful Reserves side as Gibson had refused to do so, and also the annual subscription to Sky in the clubhouse. I recall those items specifically as they were proposed at successive AGMs of the Supporters Club and the member making those proposals was me.
Members were kept posted, not least as minutes of monthly meetings were posted on the Supporters Club notice board in the clubhouse and there were Annual general Meetings open to all. I attended 7 or 8 on the bounce.
Four years ago, a working party was formed of volunteers (i recall that it was 10 or 12 supporters, mainly SC members) who were to consider the merits or otherwise of forming a Supporters Trust. That working party, of which I was one, having investigated the matter over the course of a 12 month period, formed the view that a Trust had advantages over a SC. That working party then prepared a presentation to be made to an open meeting of fans in the clubhouse. Simultaneously, an Extraordinary General Meeting of the Supporters Club was called at which the proposals were put to members, firstly to disband and join the new Trust, and secondly to transfer the assets of the Supporters Club (consisting of cash at the bank and merchandise from the club shop) to the new Trust. Both those resolutions were carried. I was present and I seem to recall that the votes of 70 or more members of the SC was unanimous but, time dims the memory and if not unanimous, it was certainly an overwhelming majority.
It would be very wrong for anyone to think that any small group of individuals "hijacked" the supporters club or "stole" any assets of the Supporters Club or that there was no consultation with the members of the Supporters Club.
Always pleased to assist.

[mrtsharpe]

Thanks AFF,

It seems like in the beginning it was a great idea but has now gone totally down the pan having being ruined by whoever is in charge now.

I only hear what is said on the terraces, message boards and in the bar so I have had to make my own conlusions.

One fan I overheard at the forum was saying he personally paid over £100 into the supporters club, did not want to join a trust, was not consulted or offered his money back when it went ahead so the in effect it was stolen, hence the stolen comment.

Thanks for clarifying a few points though AFF

[AFF]

To be clear, the annual subscription to the Supporters Club was £3 or life memberships could be purchased for, I seem to recall, £50. Having taken the precaution of having a full medical at my GP's surgery, I purchased a life membership.
The working party decided to recommend that the annual subscription to the Trust would be £10, and as far as life members of the SC were concerned, it was considered appropriate that they be offered 'free' membership of the Trust for a period of 3 years. (I haven't taken advantage of that offer, as you will realise).
If any life member objected through appropriate channels, I would be very surprised if he or she would not have been offered a refund of that life membership but I can't speak as I wasn't there. Without question, the person that you overheard was wrong when he/she said that there was no consultation with members of the SC over these matters.

[Daedalus]

Welcome to the forum Mrtsharpe, although I am aware that you already have another account on here under a different username. Creating an alias in order to make posts on a second account is something that we consider to be an improper use of the forum. If you have something to say that you feel you cannot say using your existing account/online persona then you are advised not to say it at all. Mrtsharpe, please delete one of your accounts (I will do this for you if necessary).

I would also suggest that you carefully word your comments in the future. I think your comment about the Trust 'stealing' money is libellous, inflammatory and wholly inappropriate. Please take both this and the above as a final warning.

Regarding questions about the Saints City Trust, I would advise everyone in the first instance to seek out a Trust board member at a match. Alternatively, if you are unable to attend regular matches (as seems to be the case with a number of people in this thread) use the 'contact us' page on the Saints City Trust website. Speaking with someone who actually knows what they are talking about has got to be better than speculating on an Internet forum.

Finally, I would like to take this opportunity to remind all users of our forum guidelines[/u] (see the 'sticky' thread at the top of the forum). In particular, I would like to reiterate two of key forum guidelines. Firstly, do not post simply to incite a reaction from a fellow poster(s). Secondly, users who post solely to tarnish the name of the Football Club, the Trust, or volunteers/people who give up their free time purely for the love of the club will not be tolerated.

The moderators of this forum are monitoring this thread. Any further infringement of the forum guidelines will result in the thread being locked.

I think it would be a good idea to get back to the subject of the thread and to talking about what Dr Saint intended the thread to be about.

[Saint]

Just to reiterate what Daedalus has said, this forum is for fans to express their feelings and discuss issues, but, you must adhere by our forum guidelines, otherwise both the forum, and those who post the comments, will find themselves in trouble. Of course debate and discussion is interesting, but please do not take it anywhere beyond the forum guidelines.


Thanks,

Saint

[fatboy]

Maybe a Thread should be started on here to talk about how the trust is run. Never know maybe the trust could have a open forum down the clubhouse to talk and answer questions, Just been on the trust website and the last thing of any use on there was april 12, (news on the club forum) Ok maybe the results of the prediction league have been added since, but what news of what the trust is doing,( i dare say they have done things just not told the supporters). After all whats its got to do with us fans we just helped towards the money that was raised in the name of the club.
One last point if supporters are so unhappy at the way the trust is going ,I dare say the supporters of this club could start a new supporters club.

[yorkshirebranch]

I appreciate that this forum is currently being closely monitored. So I will refrain from saying anything offensive etc

Firstly

I don't understand the fact that when people clearly in the know about the trusts goings on, are either ignored or criticised for 'trust bashing'. Simple questions have been raised such as...where is the £15,000 and why is it being held back from the club....are being completely ignored by trust committee members who are registered on this forum.

In my eyes as an outsider it seems the trust are waiting for Ridley / the owners to leave...so the trust can 'save the day'.

It's a very sad state of affairs when the trust do not involve its paying members with important information.

[Deleted]

why would you want to say something offensive in the first place?
plus why would you want to be an outsider?

it's your club after all

i guess its easier for the same 3 or 4 people to hide behind multiple log-ins with the same agenda that they have always had