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Post by PaperSaint on Apr 29, 2015 11:06:37 GMT
This thread is to allow specific updates and discussions to be had about the important Boost the Budget initiative (a core aim of the Stand by your Saints campaign). Boost the Budget is a straightforward way that fans can make a big difference by contributing as little or as much money as they can – so that money can be used by the management team to invest in improving the quality of the playing squad. This is how it works: - You commit to making an online donation to Stand by your Saints
- Stand by your Saints uses the proceeds to boost the playing budget
A recurring payment is a great way to help us to Boost the Budget – it means that every month (or any other period you choose to select), the amount you choose to donate is added to this campaign. It also means we can clearly see how much money we can regularly deliver to the management team.
You can Boost the Budget now by using the following link: standbyyoursaints.com/fundraisers/boost-the-budget/
If you prefer not to use the online facility, we are currently setting up a Standing Order form - we'll post on this group as soon as that is ready.
Anyone who contributes will also receive regular email updates on the amount raised - and also feedback on how your money is being used by the management team.
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Post by ex-saintswebbo on Apr 29, 2015 21:29:27 GMT
a great idea - wasn't the Snowball lottery meant to boost funds for the club (albeit not neccesarily straight to the playing budget) and how exactly do you know that money you give isn't just going to pay every day bills? If the money from this initative is going straight to the management team is this not taxable? Do contributors have a say in how their donations are spent?
Thanks
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Post by PaperSaint on Apr 29, 2015 21:37:22 GMT
We are borrowing the idea from other clubs and learning from their experiences. We will be working very closely with the club to make sure it is spent on the squad - but needs a certain amount of trust from both sides.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2015 7:31:23 GMT
trust from all three sides, the person paying, the sbys committee, and the management/owners/chairman
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euclid
Saints Reserve Team Player
Posts: 459
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Post by euclid on May 4, 2015 16:27:39 GMT
A good idea in principle, but have the owners made a promise that funds will be used for the purpose intended?
Until they do so, I will not be contributing.
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Post by PaperSaint on May 4, 2015 19:07:42 GMT
If the money does not go to the Players Budget then we would stop giving - and the club would have lost the loyalty of supporters and would of course then be in serious difficulties. However, the club and owners have committed that they will only spend on players budget and there has never been any indication that it would be spent on anything else. If you don't trust your club, we also have another fund - Saints Legacy Fund - that is a general fundraising fund to be used for improving facilities and the money will be spent by SBYS not the club.
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Post by PaperSaint on May 4, 2015 19:15:16 GMT
The club have also agreed a loyalty scheme with us for those that set up a regular payment (recurring payment or Direct Debit) - we hope to announce details later this week
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euclid
Saints Reserve Team Player
Posts: 459
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Post by euclid on May 4, 2015 21:31:34 GMT
Where have the owners made that commitment?. I must have missed the announcement ?
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Post by PaperSaint on May 4, 2015 21:46:53 GMT
They have made the commitment to SBYS. Not sure why a public statement is needed - what do you think the owners are going to do. Why would they be so stupid as to upset supporters wanting to help the club?
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euclid
Saints Reserve Team Player
Posts: 459
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Post by euclid on May 4, 2015 22:50:14 GMT
If you're all happy with what you've been told, that's fine. It's just I'm naturally suspicious about Football club owners and I need convincing that the Club's owners are 100% committed to the short and long term future of our Club ?
Am I wrong to expect that commitment?
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Post by bob666 on May 5, 2015 0:02:37 GMT
If you give money to a organisation (not buy a ticket for a match which is quite different) on a regular basis I don't think it is unreasonable to expect to, directly or indirectly, have a meaningful say in the governance of the organisation. If supporters are not meaningfully incorporated into the governance structure (have some form of meaningful veto) than for me their is no difference in asking people to give money to SACFC than Tesco- they both just PLCs. So my question is is their any sense in which greater supporter funding will lead to a more hybrid governance structure in which major decisions require the consent of supporter organisations? Also how do we know the counterfactual. If the owners forecast that campaign will raise £20000, for example, then what is to stop them simply reducing the playing budget by the same amount- how can we know what the playing budget would be in the absence of the scheme? At a bear minimum I want a clear commitment to matching last years budget independently of any funds raised. For me clubs are community organisations or PLCs- if they the later by all means sell things to generate revenue but do not solicit donations. For me the owners of clubs (not just St Albans) talk a lot about 'our club' etc when it suits them but really its just empty rhetoric unless fans are given real power within the club.
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Post by PaperSaint on May 5, 2015 6:16:05 GMT
The last board meeting agreed the budget - to stay the same. The board has representation from the trust and SBYS will also have a representative at board meetings in future. I really don't understand the negativity - this is supporters working tirelessly in their own free time to help build a better club for everyone. Surely that's something that everyone should get behind?
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Post by jj123 on May 5, 2015 8:27:47 GMT
Even though this is a nice idea - I just can't see it working - how can we 100% trust a board that raised the ticket prices to the most expeneisve in the league - which has only produced the 12th best team in the league.
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yellowalf
Saints Reserve Team Player
Posts: 301
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Post by yellowalf on May 5, 2015 9:27:12 GMT
If you give money to a organisation (not buy a ticket for a match which is quite different) on a regular basis I don't think it is unreasonable to expect to, directly or indirectly, have a meaningful say in the governance of the organisation. If supporters are not meaningfully incorporated into the governance structure (have some form of meaningful veto) than for me their is no difference in asking people to give money to SACFC than Tesco- they both just PLCs. So my question is is their any sense in which greater supporter funding will lead to a more hybrid governance structure in which major decisions require the consent of supporter organisations? Also how do we know the counterfactual. If the owners forecast that campaign will raise £20000, for example, then what is to stop them simply reducing the playing budget by the same amount- how can we know what the playing budget would be in the absence of the scheme? At a bear minimum I want a clear commitment to matching last years budget independently of any funds raised. For me clubs are community organisations or PLCs- if they the later by all means sell things to generate revenue but do not solicit donations. For me the owners of clubs (not just St Albans) talk a lot about 'our club' etc when it suits them but really its just empty rhetoric unless fans are given real power within the club. You're just a grammatical tease, bob666 - with the use of "counterfactual" I thought we were going to get a rare pluperfect subjunctive but you held back, maybe for a later post!
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yellowalf
Saints Reserve Team Player
Posts: 301
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Post by yellowalf on May 5, 2015 9:32:55 GMT
Even though this is a nice idea - I just can't see it working - how can we 100% trust a board that raised the ticket prices to the most expeneisve in the league - which has only produced the 12th best team in the league. To be perfectly honest, I don't see the correlation. How can the most expensive ticket price in the league possibly mean that the result should be the best team in the league? If you can only trust someone or something based on such disingenuity then I presume you experience a lot of disappointment in your life!
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yellowalf
Saints Reserve Team Player
Posts: 301
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Post by yellowalf on May 5, 2015 9:45:06 GMT
The last board meeting agreed the budget - to stay the same. The board has representation from the trust and SBYS will also have a representative at board meetings in future. I really don't understand the negativity - this is supporters working tirelessly in their own free time to help build a better club for everyone. Surely that's something that everyone should get behind? I don't understand the negativity either. The potential is that all of us indirectly benefit from this scheme, yet reading some of the responses on here its as if we are being coerced into putting money into McGowan's personal Ponzi scheme which will see him disappearing off to South America around christmas with all of our savings.
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Post by PaperSaint on May 5, 2015 9:51:50 GMT
As I have explained before on this forum, the club has financial limitations - as I understand it, we have the 3rd lowest playing budget in the league so our league position showed that we over-achieved. The owners already regularly put their own money into the club without return but why should they continue to subsidise the club. I've only seen evidence that work hard to take this club forward. Most supporters are keen to help the club move forward - its just a shame, but expected, that some won't.
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Post by PaperSaint on May 5, 2015 9:58:35 GMT
thanks yellowalf for restoring my faith in humanity...
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2015 10:10:10 GMT
i think people like to know where there money is going so for jj odonnell it is for surgery on his toe injury rather than to just randomly boost his budget no matter what promises are made
promotion was down to the fans who made it happen apparently then a week later were rewarded with the most expensive ticket prices in the league for example. we werent told where the increased gate money was going to go
well done for talking about bobs grammar yellowalf rather than asnwering any of his points
i want to wait and see what signings we make and see how the campaign goes before contributing - we need this years pires and clarke signings first
also the legacy fund - i thought the trust paid for improving facilities and stuff ?
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yellowalf
Saints Reserve Team Player
Posts: 301
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Post by yellowalf on May 5, 2015 13:20:44 GMT
well done for talking about bobs grammar yellowalf rather than asnwering any of his points No problem matt - always a pleasure, never a chore! For anyone interested in language, the pluperfect subjunctive isn't used as often as it could be. In fact had it been used more often, language would have been more interesting over the years. See what I did there? So there you go, because grammar. Except that's an example of the modern evolution of the subordinating conjunction as I'm sure you know. More here: www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2013/11/english-has-a-new-preposition-because-internet/281601/If there's anything else you want me to asnwer... Seriously though, I didn't realise he was asking the questions of me.
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yellowalf
Saints Reserve Team Player
Posts: 301
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Post by yellowalf on May 5, 2015 13:22:12 GMT
thanks yellowalf for restoring my faith in humanity... No probs, Appy. There are times when reading this site makes me lose faith in a lot of things.
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2015 13:51:57 GMT
maybe he wasnt asking questions of you maybe he was contributing to the discussion and hoping for a siimilar contribution in response try and stick to the topic
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Post by asaintreborn on May 5, 2015 14:56:35 GMT
Good afternoon,
I wanted to introduce myself, some will already know who I am under my forum name asaintreborn. I am the chairman for the Stand By Your Saints campaign and I am 1 of 5 committee members. I have watched quietly over that last few days to the reaction of to the boost the budget scheme. I have been working very closely with the club around this scheme and I have made it extremely clear to the club that this money will only be used as additional funds for the budget. A sniff of anything otherwise I will refund the fans there money and stop the scheme. We have owners whether we like it or not. Regardless of the fact if we are owned by businessman or like FC united we are community owned there has to be a element of trust. If anything community owned is more of a risk! I want to know from you what is it you want from John and Lawrence to make this work? Realistically, asking then to sign a contract is not going to happen and I have never seen a club have to go to that length to get the scheme running. The word trust is the key here. The council asked us to be come one club one community. Secondly, I strongly believe in the managers at this football club and us having a say on what the money should be spent on is an insult to them. It is up to the managers to state where they would like to spend the boost the budget funds. Whether it's to retain james comely or buy a new players it's there decision. I will be interested to hear your feedback in how we could make this work. I'm typing on a phone so forgive me. I hope it makes sense!
kind regards,
Ross kearney
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2015 15:19:39 GMT
thanks for your message ross
people will want to know what there money is being spent on in my opinion - they might already think they are boosting the budget by buying a match ticket or season ticket
they aren't saying i want my money spent on a striker, they are saying where will my extra money go
at the moment it might look like a bottomless ! pit to some people, or a black hole or whatever if they dont have a clue what the budget is or how exactly they are helping or where there money is being spent look at the money the trust have some is in the bank some is being spent on pitch stuff etc at least people know !
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euclid
Saints Reserve Team Player
Posts: 459
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Post by euclid on May 5, 2015 16:25:59 GMT
Thanks for your message Ross. As a Saints fan for over 30 years, I do wish the Stand by Your Saints campaign every success and am happy to support it.
I'm just disappointed that my initial question was met with such a prickly response by some on here.
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Post by stincubus on May 5, 2015 17:08:58 GMT
In the not too distant future I will get around to arranging a modest monthly donation. In doing so I am happy to put my trust in those who have been good enough to make the time and effort to organise this scheme and who will oversee it in due course.
This would appear to be a good initiative similar to some run by other clubs so I am happy to support it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2015 17:20:17 GMT
after the southern prem season prices went up to 15 pounds a game, at the same time they announced a significant increase in the playing budget and we finished mid table
if the budget is staying the same not including boost the budget are we aiming for mid table again ?
just wondering and didnt want to start a new thread
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Post by Boomer on May 5, 2015 18:28:01 GMT
..................In doing so I am happy to put my trust in those who have been good enough to make the time and effort to organise this scheme and who will oversee it in due course. This would appear to be a good initiative similar to some run by other clubs so I am happy to support it. Well said, stincubus. There appears to be a huge amount of work that has gone/is going into this initiative and it is good to see so many positive responses. Unity is everything and it is vital that we all work together on this. I will certainly be contributing. The next thing that needs to be sorted is the Snowball. When it was first launched, it started with 74 members but, according to my calculations, it is now down to 57. To be honest, that is a pitiful number and the monthly prize money figures are abysmal. It is probably isn't easy but what needs to happen is for someone to be taken on to take charge of the thing on a commission basis with sub agents, also on commission basis, to go around the whole city and neighbouring areas/villages etc and to drive the membership up fivefold, tenfold or even more. As I said, far from easy but the more the prize money, the easier it would be to attract further membership. You could be talking serious money here. Just an idea but it is something I imagine that a number of other non league clubs probably do.
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Post by saints17mad on May 5, 2015 19:45:39 GMT
I agree that the snowball could certainly be expanded and bring in extra revenue, so long as someone is dedicated to promoting it.
it will interesting to see how much we fans can boost the budget but best of luck for doing it!
One thing I would like the club to do is really embrace the community of the city as a whole. It would be good when the fixtures are released to have a pocket sized list distributed in pubs, restaurants, even places of worship to increase the diversity of the regular home crowd. These fixtures lists were used before during our conference south promotion season.
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Post by asaintreborn on May 5, 2015 20:02:00 GMT
I can't say to much at the moment as we are in the early stages of discussions, but the snowball will be totally rebranded by the start of next season and I'm really excited. Details will be released on the stand by yours saints website near to the start of the season as well as the club website.
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