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Post by davymac55 on Dec 3, 2014 8:51:49 GMT
And finally, we have gone out the cup comps to teams in our league, one of whom we had beaten recently. had we managed to play the game out on Saturday for the final 6 minutes( what a difference they made) we would be playing Hayes. What a missed opportunity at every level. And re reading some other posts I still maintain that not one team member came out of last nights game well. Not one.
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Post by cheshuntsaint on Dec 3, 2014 9:15:57 GMT
At the start of the season I posted that mid table mediocrity would be fantastic and still believe that! No toying with relegation would be such a great season. Still believe that. Also thought that we would get the occasional gubbing but that equally we would give a few out. All this was in the belief that although we may have the occasional off game, that the team spirit was such that the players would give their all and leave nothing on the field at the end of the game Prior to last night I had sadly witnessed several games where some players had not, how can I put it, seemed fully committed to the cause. Last night I witnessed a performance from our team that left me stunned saddened bewildered and not a little upset. Not one player came out of last nights game with any credit. This was a pub team performance, with due respect to pub teams. Passing, control, touch, movement, effort all missing. I lost count of how many times we gave and I do mean gave the ball away. We were slow on the ball and when it was controlled there were sadly too many touches. The scoreline does not flatter Wealdstone and well done to them. They played at pace as a unit and deserved the win. There are several high profile players in our team who need to have a good look at themselves. If it was a lack of skill we were talking about fair enough . You are only as good as you are. However, the dip in form and performances of many players needs to be evaluated. I was at that same ground only 6/7 weeks ago and we played them off the park and they looked poor. Someone, in fact several people said to me last night , that they had brought several players in and changed the team around. Just like us then!!!!! Very disappointing and needs to be remedied fast. Bath killed us a few weeks ago. I hope that my stated belief that any team can beat any other on the day holds true for Saturday. our win at Basingstoke has proven this. I do wonder at times what training takes place as many many basics were sadly missing last night. COYS you are surely better than you displayed last night? aren't you? If you are, start showing us. game after game please. Or go. I decided not to post last night but I was so hacked off that I decided against it! - davymac55 has hit the nail on the head! Absolutely disgraceful last night. We started off playing into a srong wind which they took full advantage off, two goals, a goal ruled out for offside and numerous other chances could've made the score 4/5-0 before HT. The only positive bit of play in the first half was the build up for Baileys chance (5 yards out and an open net is all that needs to be said!) Purchased a portion of chips at half-time and very good they were to - and served in a plastic pasta salad tub which was interesting! The second half began and I thought i'd see a huge improvement - as we were playing with the wind, surely Wealdstone couldn't keep up the intensity? How wrong was I - just appalling, and Steve Wales sending off summed it all up, a drilled cross across the box, him and the defender slid in and he kicked out twice - pathetic - get off the pitch. Ironic cheers for Frendo from the WFC fans chanting "what a waste of money" as he was subbed. I really do not understand how Ben Martin is picked week in week out, his distribution is shocking, does Jimmy feel he has to select him every week because he works with him? We have the best CM in the league yet we continously hoof the ball long over his head. It wouldn't hack me off so much if they looked like they were putting in the effort, but last night was an absolute disgrace. Considering WFC had "350 at the game on sat" poor turnout from them.....credit to the 50 Saints fans who made the trip - hopefully some form of apology from Jimmy in his interview.
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oldgeezer
Saints Youth Team Player
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Post by oldgeezer on Dec 3, 2014 10:37:32 GMT
I cant comment further on the game - Its all been said - appalling, and I wish I hadn't witnessed it.
BUT I'm all for taking the positives - Did anyone else manage to get a piece of bread pudding from the tea bar? Excellent - just like my Mum used to make!
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yellowalf
Saints Reserve Team Player
Posts: 301
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Post by yellowalf on Dec 3, 2014 13:10:17 GMT
I really do not understand how Ben Martin is picked week in week out, his distribution is shocking, does Jimmy feel he has to select him every week because he works with him? You may get your wish - by my calcs that was Ben's fifth booking of the season (four League, 1 cup) so won't that get him a one-game suspension?
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Post by Saint on Dec 3, 2014 13:17:14 GMT
According to the FA website, the yellow card cut off was the 30th of November, so Ben's record would have been wiped clean. I could, however, be wrong, and this isn't for definite. Anyone confirm?
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yellowalf
Saints Reserve Team Player
Posts: 301
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Post by yellowalf on Dec 3, 2014 13:24:07 GMT
Wales hang your head in shame. I forgive Chappell his red card against Farnborough as it was born out of frustration, an opponent dribbling away with the ball when we had a free kick in the last minute. Unlikely that the result would have been any different tonight but there was still hope. Not that I was there yesterday to compare Wales indiscretion, but I can't forgive Chappell for his petulant kick - had he not been sent off he would have been playing last night. That might not have made a difference but on the other hand it could have done. Although the actions are different (and kicking another player in the head on purpose is surely unforgivable) both actions are another sign of the indiscipline that seem to me to permeate throughout the team. I know Gray was a tough player but I always thought he was usually clever enough to stay the right side of a red card; he'd play hard but fair(-ish). This side doesn't seem to be built in his image as there is too much backchat and not enough fight. Plenty of managers down the ages have said that any team needs to earn the right to play and that isn't being shown by St Albans enough this season. We seem to want to play pretty football with flicks and back-heels rather than close the opposition down and tackle hard. The former is the sort of exciting football we want to see but only if it produces a win, the latter is what we need to show to prevent a defeat. A combination of the two is what we showed last season. Get a red card by stopping an opponent score if you have to but kicking a player who's lying on the floor? Jayz, is that the standard we've fallen to?
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yellowalf
Saints Reserve Team Player
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Post by yellowalf on Dec 3, 2014 13:27:35 GMT
According to the FA website, the yellow card cut off was the 30th of November, so Ben's record would have been wiped clean. I could, however, be wrong, and this isn't for definite. Anyone confirm? Good call - yes it does say that. Confusingly it also shows Ben Martin as being one game away from a suspension but maybe they haven't updated that page yet. Edit: That would be very good news for Ian Gayle as he's been booked in every one of his league appearances for us!
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Post by cheshuntsaint on Dec 3, 2014 14:11:25 GMT
By the looks of things, Ben Martin is getting into an argument with a fan on twitter.
He laughs at the idea of him being selected because he works with Jimmy.....well i'd love to know another reason for his selection? His recent performances have been absolutely shocking, i imagine going (being the pro that he is) out on the town on a Saturday night is really helping him improve as a footballer.
The fact he also states on his twtter that "the wealdstone fans put us in our place" what does he expect? the Saints fans to travel en mass? when they put in a performance like that?
Shocking.
He also claims that the players are all approachable in the bar? What when they swagger into the bar, wearing brand new trainers and stupid hats thinking they've made it? Pathetic.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2014 14:23:17 GMT
'Be nice to see the negative supporters in the bar after the games wouldn't it... or hear them during the game as they ridiculed the wealdstone fans, who in turn put our fans in thier place.'
As opposed to the Wealdstone players, who put the Saints players in their place?
Bit silly if you ask me.
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yellowalf
Saints Reserve Team Player
Posts: 301
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Post by yellowalf on Dec 3, 2014 14:51:00 GMT
'Be nice to see the negative supporters in the bar after the games wouldn't it... or hear them during the game as they ridiculed the wealdstone fans, who in turn put our fans in thier place.' As opposed to the Wealdstone players, who put the Saints players in their place? Bit silly if you ask me. Oh dear, Ben Martin... As you correctly point out above, Townsend, what about the players?! Maybe, as I suggested elsewhere on this forum, the lead should come from the players rather than the fans. Perhaps if the players gave a lot more on the pitch the fans would give a lot more off the pitch? Think of all the fans who did trek to Wealdstone (not me, that's for sure!). I have every admiration for them doing something I was too disinterested/lazy to do and I'd very much like Ben Martin, club captain, to explain which place these loyal fans have been put in. I could very well be reading a lot more into this, however Ben is having a spat with emjen81 whose profile clearly states; " Gay - get over it! St. Albans City FC". His Tweets are private so I can't see what he'd written that caused Martin to respond with " emjen81 or coz I finger his bum hole at work?". Is Ben Martin stupid, homophobic or simply oblivious to the, er, hole he's digging?
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Post by Boomer on Dec 3, 2014 15:21:55 GMT
It all sounds a bit like a slagging match on the Jeremy Kyle Show to me Have people really got nothing better to do in their life?
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yellowalf
Saints Reserve Team Player
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Post by yellowalf on Dec 3, 2014 15:50:21 GMT
It all sounds a bit like a slagging match on the Jeremy Kyle Show to me Have people really got nothing better to do in their life? Something better than the Jeremy Kyle Show? I never thought to look... Although it was interesting to read Arsene Wenger's views yesterday (not on Ben Martin or the Saints capitulation, but his view of players using social media): ""We can only warn them of the potential dangers but you cannot control a player 24 hours a day. They have to be responsible enough and educated to control what they say. The danger of social media is that you can quickly not always imagine the consequences of what you say.""www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/30290072PS In "Dog Bites Man" style news, Arsenal have injury worries. Plus ca change...
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2014 15:52:57 GMT
It's pretty stupid but in responding also borders on arrogant, perhaps
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2014 16:40:40 GMT
The idea that Jimmy Gray only selects Ben Martin for the team because he works for Ben's father is ludicrous in my opinion. A football team manager knows that he is judged only on results,if he thought we would obtain a better result with another player then he would undoubtably select that other player. Martin had a poor game last night and has not been in the best of form in several games lately. He hasn't as some have suggested been poor all season, he had a good game at Basingstoke and was man of the match at Boreham Wood.
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Post by cheshuntsaint on Dec 3, 2014 16:49:53 GMT
I see on Twitter he has had a dig at my post on here - the sad thing is he clearly has no respect for the fans who pay good money to watch him put in a performance like last night. His view point will be well you don't don't have the respect for me - respect is earnt I'm afraid pal. It's especially disappointing when we have let a high quality player like Ward leave and we are stuck with his arrogance. very high quality players like James Comley must look round and think what am I doing here stuck with these.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2014 17:06:33 GMT
I can't say that I know Ben Martin well,but I have sat next to him on several occasions in the bar after matches,and each time he has been polite,well mannered and respectful and never in any way 'arrogant' . I think it would be safe to say that Ben Martin is very well liked as a person by virtually all our regular travelling away fans,and all of us who gather in the bar after matches. It seems very short sighted to be drawing conclusions about someone's character by reading a 'twitter spat' .
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Post by cheshuntsaint on Dec 3, 2014 17:13:31 GMT
Cheers Ben for clearing that up
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euclid
Saints Reserve Team Player
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Post by euclid on Dec 3, 2014 17:27:46 GMT
If I was Ben Martin, I would be pretty hacked off with your comment CS! Think he deserves a bit more respect than that. He's been a very good player for our club!
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Post by cheshuntsaint on Dec 3, 2014 17:30:38 GMT
Well I hope he proves me wrong by putting in a decent performance on Saturday.
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yellowalf
Saints Reserve Team Player
Posts: 301
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Post by yellowalf on Dec 3, 2014 18:09:48 GMT
What is a positive outcome for me is that Ben reads this forum. If I were a footballer I'd steer well clear of club forums for the conflicting and no-so-complimentary opinions that, basically, frustration causes to be written. It shows to me that he is responsible enough to consider the fans and what they think as being part of his role as club captain. I'm not going to criticise how he plays: as far as I can see if he's not playing particularly well then he still tries to do enough to prevent the opposition scoring which is all you can ask of a defender at this level. He doesn't hide, or get frustrated at the ref; he blocks and hoofs it clear. That said, I am always disappointed when players get involved in arguments on Twitter. They're on a hiding to nothing as they're never going to win an argument and they're the ones who get the public attention. I don't agree that players should be prevented from using Twitter or Facebook, but they do need to learn to sit on their hands instead of firing off a reply. I do understand why Ben gets angry or frustrated at the suggestion that he's only in the team through favouritism but I still think that some of the things he wrote today on Twitter were stupid and poorly considered. He probably doesn't agree!
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Post by Hatboy on Dec 3, 2014 18:24:45 GMT
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Post by PaperSaint on Dec 3, 2014 19:23:56 GMT
I accept that we have had some poor performances this year but also some great performances - ie Basingstoke (one of my few away trips). We've just got promoted and my expectation for the season was and still is to remain in the Conference South. Pushing for a play-off place would be the icing on the cake. This is "real" football - which is why I've got the bug for it - and those players out there generally are not full-time pros and will have their bad / good days. Do they really just turn up without a care for the result - and the backlash..? At this level, very few teams will turn out great performances week in / week out. Sometimes things don't go well and confidence suffers. Just look at the results each week in this league - there are always surprises and various teams have gone up and down in the league following a sequence of losses / wins. We are struggling with our consistency - but then so do Premier League teams. As a Spurs supporter I've also had plenty of that season.... However, win, draw or lose, I'm looking forward to getting along to CP - and away games - as often as I can to support my team.
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Post by Boomer on Dec 3, 2014 19:56:11 GMT
Well I hope he proves me wrong by putting in a decent performance on Saturday. You might want to hope that the other 10 players do, as well. No one played well at The Vale, especially Ben and he will, no doubt, admit that. In saying that, he was not the worst player for us on the night.
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Post by Boomer on Dec 3, 2014 20:27:34 GMT
I can't say that I know Ben Martin well,but I have sat next to him on several occasions in the bar after matches,and each time he has been polite,well mannered and respectful and never in any way 'arrogant' . I think it would be safe to say that Ben Martin is very well liked as a person by virtually all our regular travelling away fans,and all of us who gather in the bar after matches. It seems very short sighted to be drawing conclusions about someone's character by reading a 'twitter spat' . I agree with all of that, lonecrank. I have known Ben for probably something like 10 years and he is a top bloke, who will always make time to talk to you, whether it be on an away coach or after one of our games. A nicer guy you couldn't wish to meet and arrogant he most definitely is not. Yes, he probably should not have got sucked into a spat with the person but I do have some sympathy. Personal abuse against a player is bang out of order, whether it be on a social network site or a forum and a genuine supporter of SACFC he is not or he would not be making such utterances.
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Post by Boomer on Dec 3, 2014 20:32:52 GMT
I accept that we have had some poor performances this year but also some great performances - ie Basingstoke (one of my few away trips). We've just got promoted and my expectation for the season was and still is to remain in the Conference South. Pushing for a play-off place would be the icing on the cake. This is "real" football - which is why I've got the bug for it - and those players out there generally are not full-time pros and will have their bad / good days. Do they really just turn up without a care for the result - and the backlash..? At this level, very few teams will turn out great performances week in / week out. Sometimes things don't go well and confidence suffers. Just look at the results each week in this league - there are always surprises and various teams have gone up and down in the league following a sequence of losses / wins. We are struggling with our consistency - but then so do Premier League teams. As a Spurs supporter I've also had plenty of that season.... However, win, draw or lose, I'm looking forward to getting along to CP - and away games - as often as I can to support my team. The voice of reason. Well said!
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Post by PaperSaint on Dec 3, 2014 20:49:59 GMT
Thanks(!) - and to prove my point Hugo Lloris - a world class keeper - should have saved Drogba's shot and gifted Chelsea the second and the second half hasn't even started yet...
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Post by asaintreborn on Dec 3, 2014 22:41:41 GMT
I have spoken to Ben in the bar too and you can see he is very polite and approachable. He made a grave error publically getting involved in a spat. He is the club captain and needs to set an example. I don't like it when he gets abuse, because when he plays badly and last night he had a shocker. It's not because of a lack of effort and like other have said he reads the forums, it shows he cares and actually he is a fan as much as he is a player. He certainly is not being selected because he is Jimmy mate, that's just insulting, but I think it's because we know he can be better and the rock we need him to be. His time at Welling utd and last seasons shows he is valuable centre back to have at this level. I do feel we need someone who can pressure him for his place so we can see his A game again.
To say what he said about the city fans was ill informed, plus insulting. I rearranged my work shift to get there to support my club. I don't get to go very often now, as I work weekends and it felt like a real slap in the face. I actually thought despite only having 20 fans behind the goal singing and the rest floating around the stadium, we were quite loud and still sung until it became embarrassing, around the 70th minute.(might have been later) When Wealdstone fans sung they were loud, but they didn't sing for a lot of the game.
Bens other remark when he said "what so you only sing when you're winning made me chuckle. Saint fans sing when we are losing all the time, but that performance didn't warrant it and we still sung during the game. There wasn't a moment in that game bar 10 mins that players inspired the fans to sing. So it was impressive we sung for as long as we did.
Now I can't tell whether we are defending badly as a team when we decide to not turn up, such as games like wealdstone and bath etc which exposes the backline or certain individual are not performing as it's difficult to see from the sideline, but I suspect it's both. That will hopefully being worked on in training. When we decide to not turn up teams seem to walk through us which is concerning.
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Post by Boomer on Dec 3, 2014 22:47:49 GMT
Let's see how we get on against Bath City on Saturday, when Beckles is protecting the back four.
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Post by asaintreborn on Dec 3, 2014 23:08:52 GMT
The most concerning thing for me last night is some players looked disinterested. I'm sure that wasn't the case, but it came across like that. A lot of the time we gave the ball away wasn't because they pressed us, we played sloppy passes and missed Unmarked players. The youth players that came on got involved, were busy and had a great attitude. Coms was superb last night and is the best cm in the league. His technique is superb, but his decision making is why he playing at this level instead of professional football. James is a perfectionist and wants to score the perfect goal by walking it into the net, instead of pulling the trigger. Last night, late in the second half he hit one from 30 yards out and it was hit sweetly, but it was meat and drink as it was too far out. He had 10 yards of space to run into. If he had seized that opportunity and hit from 20 yards instead, it would have been a goal to remember. In the first half and second he had opportunities to pull the trigger from just outside the area and gave up the opportunity for another pass. If he can work on that he would be one hell of a player. Corkers is the same and sometimes over complicates the situation. It doesn't mean I want to see hoof football, but over playing like the arsenal way of we will walk round you sometime is just as frustrating. If there is an opportunity shoot then do it! Nathan greens goal is an example of what happens when you pull the trigger. We are massively missing a player like Potton to complement those two as he would never pass up an opportunity for goals. I love Listening to Jimmy's interviews he shows a real passion for City and we needed someone with his hero/warrior spirit on the pitch last night. There is no way if he was still playing he would have let the team go down without a whimper. We need leaders on the pitch, Coms leads via his performance, Benny seems to be the only one who communicates it's far to quiet out there. James Gray was never quiet and if you did something wrong you would certainly no about it. We missed Chappell last night his passion and energy adds bite to city. However, these players should be just as loud when players produce great moments of football. Sometimes we go a bit quiet in these moments unless it goes in the net. We are also not vocal enough when communicating to our players when opposition players are sneaking up from behind, passing men on to pick up or challenging for the same ball. The latter happened far to often yesterday. I'm sure we will improve when players return such as Beckles and Smith etc However, It worries me that we can use that as excuse when players like Gayle and smith leave after their loan, are we really that thin on the ground? I've never known such controversy at the club as my time as a supporter and it's sad to see because it's gone to far. This all started when the ticket price hike was installed, then we had Frendo gate and now this. . We have always been a community club, with great spirit where players and fans socialised, but unfortunately there seems to be an air of tension caused by a build up of different events. Even when we were falling down the leagues in the past it wasn't like this. I don't understand what's happened since the end of last season and how we all felt including the players about the good place the club was in and the excitement of this season. Despite our league position it feels like the club has become divided. I wish we could go back and press reset on this season, but sadly we cannot. There are certainly things to be learned from this season and hopefully we can find a way to banish this ill feeling. The Camels back was broken after Frendo incident, all the hard work city put in acquiring the new fans over the last season immediately dissipated after that game, as they decided £15 was to much to pay especially when a top player doesn't turn up. Hopefully there are better day ahead.
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Post by notsorecentconvert on Dec 3, 2014 23:09:43 GMT
It's really interesting seeing the fall-out from last night's game.
It's only my opinion but I can see two sides to Ben Martin speaking out on Twitter. Firstly, it's heartening that some of the players see and notice what genuine fans think of their performances (whether they like what they read or not)..
I have some sympathy with the argument against anonymous criticism. Most of us would not be quite as strident face to face, or even with our name to our comments, as we are when there's a degree of anonymity, which is the same as shouting from a crowd.
But one of the things I like about non-league football is the accountability, relative to league football.
Was Ben Martin wise to engage on Twitter today? Perhaps not, but it was an honest response to criticism and you could argue that it might bring the fans and players closer together. A bit of an honest exchange of views might not be a bad thing. Certainly the club's hierarchy are not currently doing much to foster a club spirit, so it's down to the management, players and the supporters to do it.
We're a bit of a laughing stock at the moment but only with one other club (Wealdstone). Clearly the players notice the support (or lack of it) but to criticise the people who battled through the north-west London traffic after a day's work is not exactly smart.
Having said that, it doesn't hurt to remember that the players are just blokes too. They've also done a days work and it's not in their interests to turn up and be terrible. I think most fans accept shortcomings – if they don't, they shouldn't be watching non-league football – but they want to see a bit of heart.
I don't want to single out Frendo as an individual but when he hit the corner flag with a shot, I felt less inclined to shout: "Come on John, keep going," because he's sodded off to Spain to watch El Classico. That thought was in the forefront of my mind.
It's about give and take. If they give their all, they can take heart from committed support (whether it's from 40 or 400 fans).
Having drifted away from league football, those values really matter to me and I thought I'd found them at St Albans. The past two months have been challenging.
That's all a bit touchy-feely and heart-felt but it's how it seems to me. If I wanted to see technically superior players I have the choice to watch at a higher level. What I enjoy about St Albans is that people like Ben Martin will literally put their head int he way of someone's boot, try their hardest and fight. It's the lack of obvious scrap last night that stings, not the lack of quality. That's why people like Comley, and tolerate his mistakes. He goes and goes and goes and even though it's annoying when he's rabbiting at the ref, he's doing what those of us on the terraces feel like doing.
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